maggiephoto

Hello!

I am very new here, so be kind! I am a Vegan and an Animal Rights Supporter, I love and am very proud of my contributions to all beings. One of the most annoying things on my Vegan forum is people coming in saying "but Jesus ate meat", I am still at a loss for how Jesus could be the standard for everything good and right. The Bible overall is worse!

I also heard that "Well, God was the inspiration for the bible, so who cares who it is written by"...Well, I hate to shock that person, but I care. Man is imperfect, the concept of God is imperfect, how can imperfect man justify a perfect God?

I became Vegan not due to "divine intervention" but an awareness of myself and the world around me, which is the same reason why I moved away from religion. I love embracing this philosphical practices, it is still all new to me. I love the open mind thinking of Agnosticism..

Well, Thanks for listening,

Hope to hear from everyone soon!
Respectfully,
Mags

__________________
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious ourselves.

-Albert Einstien

Og

Vegan is an interesting practice. Have you heard of the Janes (a sect of hinduism). The most stringent practitioners will only eat food that has fallen off of the tree of its own accord and is otherwise dead and decaying.

I don't really agree with veganism personally, but understand its value. I think that it's a good tool for preventing violence and conflict and such and that it's important for some people to experience it.

Personally, I think that veganism is an anthropomorphization and a lack of understanding of what life is. Basically it's a statement that you don't want to harm other human beings (or things that even remotely look like human beings).

Think about when a cow is slaughtered. It's throat is cut. Neurons in the throat tissue fire and send "pain" signals to the brain that are interpreted as such and the animal writhes a bit and moans (if they can) and probably "feel" something similar to what a human would if the same thing happened to them.

When you bite into an apple or a piece of celery, you are also causing electronic potentials in cells to fire (depolarizing as you damage the plant cells). Just because these signals don't go into a complex computational area designed to direct the organism to avoid those situations doesn't mean that you aren't eating a living thing that has a physiological response to being killed.

My view is that life feeds off life. There's no way around that. It's the nature of the world we are part of. I can appreciate how non-biologists or non-neuroscientists can think of the world in terms of plants being different than cows (because the cows have eyes and such). But to me, life is life. Life feeds off life. A steak is yummy. All life ends.. etc.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

maggiephoto

Thank You for posting!

I appreciate everything that you have said, my best friend agrees. She only eats "grass feed" (Which I believe there is no such thing) or "free range" (Again, according to the laws, there is none, this statement is false).

I do like the insight that you gave, and yes, I have heard a Jainism...something I admire a great deal. Me personally? I lived in Texas and have seen (and smelled) slaughterhouses and it turns my stomach...the amount of environmental concerns, Human Rights and weight concerns (I lost 28 lbs LOL), leads to something that is very personal and philosphical...something I appreciate as an agnostic.

Like I said, it is so refreshing to hear all sides!

Thank You!

Respectfully,
Mags

__________________
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious ourselves.

-Albert Einstien

romansh

Og ..... I suppose carrying the argument of cells sensing damage to an extreme, we should only eat fruit in that fruit 'wants' or needs us for seed dispersal. And that we should only defecate where the said seeds stand a chance of germination? ... sorry about that

maggie .... I am also omnivorous. Part of me understands the wish for veganism and vegetarianism and the like.

Joseph Campbell describes the rituals/myths of many supposedly "primative" cultures embracing and celebrate life and the fact that it is red in tooth and claw, and that without death there would not be life. Other cultures tended to withdraw from life ... like Jainism... to minimize their footprint. Of course theistic religions tend to want to fix the problems with life.

I suspect for many the problem of the carnivorous aspect of lives is that we have lost reverence/respect/contact for the animals we eat.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

maggiephoto

Roman,

Thank You so very much for responding!

I totally agree, I have been reading about Buddhism (In it's purist form) Jainism and all the eastern religions.

And I like what you said about losing respect for the things we eat. Had this been 50 or 100 years ago, I probably would have told you that I am a "Vegetarian", but the sad state of affairs in the treatment and slaughter abuses of Milking Cows and Animals and the treatment of laying hens and broiler (sp?) chickens has caused me to pause about milk , cheese and eggs.

I am going to definitely research about Joseph Campbell, than you so much for the information.

Hope to speak to everyone soon!

Hugs!
Mags

__________________
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious ourselves.

-Albert Einstien

Shadee

I've thought about vegetarianism but after the recent research done on plant neurobiology there isn't really any moral difference for me. Plants have been proven to give off electrical signals when they are damaged very much like our own nervous system. And scientists are now studying adaptive plant behavior, signaling and communication in symbiosis and pathogenesis, plant immunity, plant memory and learning, plant-plant communication, as well as plant intelligence.

Just because the way they're built and work is different doesn't mean they can't feel a form of pain or discomfort. Denying that would be like saying a fish doesn't breathe because it doesn't have lungs like us.

Animals are a lot more interactive and cuddly but I don't think that should be a reason to respect other forms of life any less.

I've actually been looking at Fruitarianism for a while but I'm not sure if I would be able to do it.

Skepticologist

Fruitarianism? I'm sorry, but I have to admit to being largely insensitive to the possibility of warping some pomegranate's psyche when I rip it open and scarf down all those lovely tasty seeds.

I'm similarly insensitive to the plight of higher life forms such as cows and pigs and chickens and fish (especially blue fin tuna) that provide me with such wonderful meals at the hands of my favorite chefs.

Certainly, at least with regard to the animal contributors to my menu, I want them to make such contributions with the absolute minimum of suffering. I'm not so sure about their consciousness, but I do know from personal observation that they have the capacity to feel pain.

Still, such concerns take second place, at least in my feeble mind, to the denigration of human life going on unabated in the world today. Whether camouflaged as globalization or economic necessity, the rich are getting richer and the poor are consequently suffering an unprecedented degree of deprivation.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

Shadee

Actually fruitarians =do= eat fruit, it being something plants generate with the intention of it being eaten and spread it's seeds, so they would also rip into that pomegranate
As for the denigration of human life I don't see how changing your diet would be such a distraction from thinking about those world issues

Note that I'm not a vegetarian either, I'm just saying that if I were to do it purely out of sympathy for living creatures then I wouldn't want to discriminate.

Bjarki Dalsgarð

Coming from a country where meat has had everything to say for survival, as nothing will grow here except grass, I find it rather unreal that people can be vegans and the like, though my particular other is a vegan, and she has opened my eyes to it, still eating lots of meat here though.

These days it is possible to be living of green stuff and the like here, but you don't need to go far back in time here to find out that whole villages could die of starvation, as most food has been from sheep and fish.

Whales have been a very important meat source for the people here through the ages, a group of whales could mean the difference between death and survival, we still kill whales some dolphins too, I'm not protecting it more than saying it is an important part of our culture and there are lots of them whales left in the sea, and that it tastes damn great.
But I'm not against killing whales at all, as long as everything gets used.

I'm an omnivore coz I doubt it will be possible for me to abandon meat while I live here, but I have in mind to atleast try it out being a green stuff eater for a decent while sometime.

I respect all ways of living as long as no one is preaching bout what is the best or right thing to do.

Cheers

__________________
Any clod can have the facts, but having opinions is an art.

The bitternes of life may consume you, otherwise it teaches you how to live for real.