Gringo

"I know you are against gay adoption but seriously the gay people aren't trying to turn their kids gay. If anything they teach their kids tolerance and learning tolerance is what is going to help save our society. Tolerance of difference in lifestyles, religions, ethnicity, etc. I honestly believe that the kids of gay parents, transsexuals have had exposure to such diversity that it has taught them tolerance and acceptance far greater than a hetero family could. I know many children of gay and transsexuals and guess what .. everyone of the kids are heterosexual ... not a gay one in the bunch. Gay parents can't wait to be grandparents either ..... I'm not asking you to accept any of this .... it's strictly FYI. Deb"[/quote]


Gay people know that they, themselves, didn't choose their own sexual orienation. They just were gay.


Why on earth would they feel that they could force their children to choose their sexuality.

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Geshtinnanna

Now let's look at all the gay people on the planet. Who do you think might have been making these gay people? Straight people.

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romansh

Adoption and children ....... is not about the parents; it's about the child.

If we had two equally loving, educated (whatever adjective we want) couples.
In a perfect society it should not matter which couple adopts even if one of the couples is gay.

So my question is: in a less than perfect society which would be best for the child?

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Gringo

And the origin of gay people has exactly what to do with the rearing of children by them?

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Geshtinnanna

The point is that it's ok for gay people do adopt children. And saying that gay people shouldn't adopt because their children might become gay (which is what people REALLY fear) is dumb. All gay people come from straight people. So by that logic straight people shouldn't adopt. It's just a dumb idea to think gays will make children gay.
Does THAT explain things better?

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Skepticologist

The problem so many people have with gay marriage, specifically, and homosexuality, more generally, is that it's just not natural. As with many other societal considerations, there's a point at which it achieves critical mass, and I maintain that, given the literally millions of Americans, not to mention untold millions of other societies, who have adopted it as a lifestyle, homosexuality has met that criterion.

Even as a straight while male, that comes as no surprise to me. Fortunately, my predisposition to heterosexuality has worked pretty well for me, at least to the extent that I haven't felt compelled to consider potentially uncomfortable alternative lifestyles. But I have a much-beloved niece who lives happily with her female partner, driven largely, in my estimation, by witnessing her mother and older sister having had their lives disrupted by disastrous heterosexual relationships. The happiness of being in a committed relationship with another human being, regardless of gender, is something she's made work in her life, and I couldn't be happier for her.

Her life today is the product of influences that are likely very different from those that drove other of her homosexual colleagues to adopt a simiar lifestyle. But the bottom line is that homosexuality has long since passed the point of being a social aberration. While remaining a lifestyle adopted, for whatever reason, by a minority of members of our society, it has been adopted by a sufficient number to make it not only consequential but legitimate.

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"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

Gringo

Yes, that explains it very clearly. I just didn't understand what you were getting at, but now I do.

Thanks

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greywolf90

im straight but i am for gay marriage. i've read the arguments about how being gay is not a choice. i can agree that if they have no more choice in who they're attracted to then a straight person does. but the arguments seemed to only apply to those who had always been gay (at least since puberty or sooner); i was wondering about those who change orientations later in life. like if a straight person became gay, or a gay person became straight (and of course this includes bi, pan, etc.)

i was also wondering how you all feel about gays in the military. im joining the navy and one of the documents we had to sign was basically saying homosexuality is not allowed and you swear that you are not gay. i think it's absurd to kick someone out of the military, when they haven't caused any problems for however many years, just because one day they let it slip that they were gay. this is just a waste of a good soldier. my brother has been in the army for a couple of years and i tried talking to him about it. he is now a protestant so he doesn't exactly share my opinion on gay rights. all he said was that their are reasons homosexuals can't be in the military. he didn't go into any more detail, and the only reason i can think of is that it would make people like him uncomfortable. well the fact that people are being kicked out for being gay shows that their clearly are gay people in the military already. for all he knows his best friend could be gay.

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"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

Geshtinnanna

cool. I give thumbs up to gay rights!

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Jodou1

FAITH:
First of all God did create the people who become gay, he didn't make them gay. They made that decision on their own. Christianity was here when and before the world was made, as there was always Christ. Science is here because of God, so how can it do more than him? And how can science heal my sickness, if God doesn't keep science working. We get better because of God, people do good because of God, just as people do evil because of Satan. But people don't seem to have a problem with Satan who causes hate, anger, sin, homosexuality, death, and many other things. He tries to pull people from God so that they can burn with him. But I don't hear any complaints about him...God does all the good in the world and he gets the blame for the evil, ya that makes alot of sence...


I'll assume you're a real christian who wants to do good in the world. I'll make the bigger leap of assuming you are a human being who cares for other human beings. In this sense I ask you to execute a serious experiment for me. This isn't sarcasm nor a joke, I ask you to go out, find a 900LB man, and MAKE yourself physically attracted to him. Be you woman or man, it shouldn't matter since you think sexuality is a choice.

If you can literally make yourself get sexually arroused by someone you would not typically be arroused by merely by looking at them, just because you will it so, then further this experiment and find yourself an 80LB six foot tall woman. Use your wonderful ability and make everything about her attractive to you. get arroused by every rib.

The point of this would be you will either become aware of the fact that sexuality is indeed not a choice, and then refer to homosexuals with some sense of humanity, or you will learn how to do what I cannot and alter your sexuality at will, and then be able to preach your beliefs not out of complete ignorance.


FAITH:
OMG, some people never learn. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PROVEN! It is by faith, that we follow God's word, so yes, we are obligated. I am not gambling on my soul. If you wish to, then that is your mistake. And uh, maybe you haven't noticed, you live in God's world and are bound to God's laws. When you can break free from God physical laws and prove me otherwise, give me a shout, ok?

Living by faith alone is a gamble.


HINDWEB:
Personally I don't have any issues in gay marriages and stuff, but I do have a question, why marry, why can't you be just friends, do you really wanna marry so that you can avail the government benefits?

I work and pay taxes the same as anyone else, I am a born and bred american same as anyone else. Therefor these benefits are my right, why shouldn't I want them?


Skepti:
The problem so many people have with gay marriage, specifically, and homosexuality, more generally, is that it's just not natural. As with many other societal considerations, there's a point at which it achieves critical mass, and I maintain that, given the literally millions of Americans, not to mention untold millions of other societies, who have adopted it as a lifestyle, homosexuality has met that criterion.

Even as a straight while male, that comes as no surprise to me. Fortunately, my predisposition to heterosexuality has worked pretty well for me, at least to the extent that I haven't felt compelled to consider potentially uncomfortable alternative lifestyles. But I have a much-beloved niece who lives happily with her female partner, driven largely, in my estimation, by witnessing her mother and older sister having had their lives disrupted by disastrous heterosexual relationships. The happiness of being in a committed relationship with another human being, regardless of gender, is something she's made work in her life, and I couldn't be happier for her.

Her life today is the product of influences that are likely very different from those that drove other of her homosexual colleagues to adopt a simiar lifestyle. But the bottom line is that homosexuality has long since passed the point of being a social aberration. While remaining a lifestyle adopted, for whatever reason, by a minority of members of our society, it has been adopted by a sufficient number to make it not only consequential but legitimate.

Skepti I must say that you have been one of the people I have admired most on this board. You seem to be as well written as you are intelligent. I find it disheartening that you tend to think the homosexual lifestyle is merely adopted.