Agnostic Forums
  Show Threads  Show Posts

Agnostic Forums - Discuss Agnosticism

Go Back   Agnostic Forums > Religions Of The World > Judaism

Judaism Discuss and debate Juadaism and it's beliefs.


ThirtySpace.com
Want These Ads To Go Away? Become A Premium Member. Click here to see how...

Reply
Bookmark this thread at ThreadSoup: BookMark This Thread On ThreadSoup.com! Add it!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-04-2007, 02:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
VenomFangX
Junior Member
 
VenomFangX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
VenomFangX is on a distinguished road
Default Proving Jesus is the Jewish Messiah

My parents are Jewish, so I am Jewish by blood. Having studied the Jewish scriptures, I know Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. You might ask, how?

There was a lady at the video store where I work today. I'm going to explain the same thing to you that I did to her. She was raised Jewish, but did not attend synagog. It seems an increasing number of jews are departing from their religious practises, why is this?

Well, let's look at biblical judiasm. Throughout scripture, we see that the Israelites were made a separated people unto God to bring about the redemption of mankind; both gentile and jew were to be redeemed and saved. We see in the book Moses wrote called Leviticus ,chapter 11 verse 17, that the blood on the alter makes atonemtn for sin. We look at the first time Adam sinned, God killed an animal and covered Adam's shame with the animal sacrifice and skin. We see God ask Abraham to offer his only son to show faithfulness to God, and God stopped Abraham and said that He would provide a Lamb. We see on the passover, the blood on the doorposts allowed judgement to pass over the Israelites. We see in Isaiah 53 prophecy of the Messiah who was to come and suffer and die for the atonment of sins. This Messiah was to make final atonement not just for the jews, but for the Gentiles too. However, modern judaism makes no effort to welcone gentiles into the Kingdom of God, makes no sacrifice for sins, and forsakes many of the truths within the torah.

However, the jewish scriptures say in Isaiah 49 that the Messiah will be a Light to the gentiles, born from among the jewish people. Daniel 9:24 says that the Messiah was to come, make final atonement for sin, and then be killed, and then the jewish temple was to be destroyed. Jesus died on the cross, brought the entire gentile world to the knowledge of the God of Israel, and then the temple was destroyed in 70 AD: the jewish people have no had a sacrifice or their sins or a temple since.

In the book of Deuteronomy, Moses warns the Israelites that a prophet will be raised up from among their brothers, and if this prophet is rejected, that the Israelites would be assaulted by their enemies, be scattered among the world, and be few in number. This is why the holocaust happened; the jews rejected their Messiah and did not have the protection of God.

Many jews, like myself, recognize that Jesus (Yeshua) is the promised Messiah, without which there is no forgiveness of sins. Jesus is God, and became a man, and died for our sins. Jewish scriptures say in Isaiah 7:14, 9:6, and Michah 5:2 that the Messiah is the be God in the flesh, and born in Bethelehem (where Jesus was born). As it is now, the gentiles are being welcomes into the Kingdom of God by the gospel of Christ, and jews and gentiles around the world are being united in Christ. He will return shortly to this world, and start His heavenly reign, bringing peace and joy to His followers, and destruction to His enemies.

So, here's what you need to consider; if Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, you can not claim to be a true jew and reject Him. If He is not the Messiah, then you will die in your sins, because torah says you need a blood sacrifice, but Judiasm no longer offers that.

You need to repent of your sins, and put your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Feel free to message me if you want to talk further. Also check out my youtube videos at the link in my signature. God bless you all.
__________________
Atheists better pray that they aren't wrong thewaythetruth.com
VenomFangX is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 01:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
Jacob
Senior Member
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 198
Jacob is on a distinguished road
Default

VenomFangX Re: Isaiah 53 prophecy of a Messiah

Assuming that Yeshua/Jesus (who we know so little about; historically speaking) of being a Messiah is a huge assumption.

Jacob
Jacob is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 01:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
VenomFangX
Junior Member
 
VenomFangX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
VenomFangX is on a distinguished road
Default

Daniel 9:24 says the Messiah will come, die, and then the temple would be destroyed. Isaiah 49 says this Messiah will be rejected by the nation of Israel, but be a Light to the gentiles (non-jews). Isaiah 53 says this Messiah will be bruised, beaten, and killed, buried with the rich, and then have His days prolonged (ressurrection).

Jesus came, was rejected by Israel, killed, buried with the rich (which was a rarity for convincted criminals), and then rose from the dead. And now, 2000 years later, the entire Gentile world now worships the God of Israel because of this Jesus of Nazareth.
__________________
Atheists better pray that they aren't wrong thewaythetruth.com
VenomFangX is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 09:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
jaej
Senior Member
 
jaej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,223
jaej is on a distinguished road
Default

The entire gentile world? Um, no, but you're wrong. And again, like I said before, those 'predictions' are so ridiculously vague they could apply to a vast number of people.

And we do know very little, historically, about Jesus. Even the bible, which by no means is a historically accurate account, is vague.
__________________
Μολὼν Λαβέ

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
jaej is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 01:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
VenomFangX
Junior Member
 
VenomFangX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
VenomFangX is on a distinguished road
Default

When I say the 'whole gentile world' I mean that you can go anywhere in the world, and people worship the God of Israel. That is fullfilled prophecy.

Now you may rebuttle with 'I can find hindus and buddhists everywhere, too', but their numbers are simply not comparable to the Christians. Nor are they sending missionaries to foreign countries to seek and save the lost.

Also, The Bible is easily the most printed book in world history, having been translated into practically every language known to man.
__________________
Atheists better pray that they aren't wrong thewaythetruth.com
VenomFangX is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 09:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
Jacob
Senior Member
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 198
Jacob is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenomFangX View Post
When I say the 'whole gentile world' I mean that you can go anywhere in the world, and people worship the God of Israel. That is fullfilled prophecy.

Now you may rebuttle with 'I can find hindus and buddhists everywhere, too', but their numbers are simply not comparable to the Christians. Nor are they sending missionaries to foreign countries to seek and save the lost.

Also, The Bible is easily the most printed book in world history, having been translated into practically every language known to man.

This is proof that advertising works. It still doesn't prove that the God of Mt. Sinai is the real thing.


Jacob
Jacob is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2007, 09:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
VenomFangX
Junior Member
 
VenomFangX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
VenomFangX is on a distinguished road
Default

The way to prove that God is the God of Mount Sinai is easy.


Proof #1

The Bible is unique from all literature in known history; it predicts the future with 100% accuracy. Since God exists beyond time, He sees the entire timeline and is able to tell us what will happen before it happens. Let's look at some prophecy in Jewish scripture that predates Christ by many hundreds of years;

Daniel 9:24 says the Messiah will come, die, and then the temple would be destroyed. Isaiah 49 says this Messiah will be rejected by the nation of Israel, but be a Light to the gentiles (non-jews). Isaiah 53 says this Messiah will be bruised, beaten, and killed, buried with the rich, and then have His days prolonged (ressurrection).

Jesus came, was rejected by Israel, killed, buried with the rich (which was a rarity for convincted criminals), and then rose from the dead. And now, 2000 years later, the entire Gentile world now worships the God of Israel because of this Jesus of Nazareth.

There are hundreds of prophecies in The Bible, this is just one of them that is so powerful, it's undeniable.

________________________________

Proof #2

Science. There is scientific knowledge in The Bible that could not have been known at the time of writing. Allow me to give you some examples.


Can you send forth lightnings, so that they may go and say to you, ‘Here we are? Job 38:35

We only recently discovered that we can use electricity to send messages. The Bible knew this all along.

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. - Isaiah 40:22 (NIV)

We recently discovered that the Earth was circular, and that the universe is constantly expanding. The Bible knew this all along.

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing." - Job 26:7 (NIV)

We recently discovered that the Earth is floating in space. The Bible knew this all along.

"He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind." - Job 36:27-28 (NIV)

"He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight." - Job 26:8 (NIV)

We recently discovered the hydrological cycle. The Bible knew this all along.

He took him outside and said, "Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." - Genesis 15:5 (NIV)

We recently discovered that the stars are not countable by human measurements. The Bible knew this all along.

The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the Lord, at the blast of breath from his nostrils. - 2 Samuel 22:16 (NIV)

We recently discovered that there are valleys at the bottom of the oceans. The Bible knew this all along.
__________________
Atheists better pray that they aren't wrong thewaythetruth.com
VenomFangX is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 10:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
jaej
Senior Member
 
jaej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,223
jaej is on a distinguished road
Default

This is the second time you've written this, and it's the second time you've been wrong. At least.

Quote:
Nor are they sending missionaries to foreign countries to seek and save the lost.
Wrong.

Quote:
Also, The Bible is easily the most printed book in world history, having been translated into practically every language known to man.
All this does is show the power of superstition and fear. And the will of it's followers.
__________________
Μολὼν Λαβέ

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
jaej is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 10:40 AM   #9 (permalink)
Jacob
Senior Member
 
Jacob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 198
Jacob is on a distinguished road
Default

VenomFangX Re: your last post

It's obvious that you've put a lot of thought into forming your beliefs. I respect that; however, I'm still not convinced.

Have you ever been in the countryside on a very clear night, away from all the city lights; and looked up at the stars? There are billions of them. Of course you can't count them. You don't need the bible to tell you that.

Isaiah 53:10 states that the messiah would live a long life and sire children. You have concluded that the long life refers to the resurrection and that the children are the followers of Yeshua. Many believers seem to conveniently adjust biblical information to suit their beliefs.

I'm not questioning the wisdom that Jews/Israelites have expounded over the ages. They were very clever, but a lot of the information that they picked up came from foreign societies.

In the bible version of creation, God made Eve from Adam's rib. This seems oddly similar to the Hittite beliefs that man was created from the tail of a monkey (according to Wikipedia and various other sources). The people who were to become the Israelites had a lot of contact with the Hittites at one time. Sarah, the wife of the patriarch Abraham, was a Hittite.

Did the bible teach us about evolution? No science did.

Jacob

Last edited by Jacob : 07-10-2007 at 02:53 PM. Reason: grammar
Jacob is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2007, 06:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
Tango
Member
 
Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cali
Posts: 39
Tango is on a distinguished road
Default

are you kidding? christians think their whole story is original. its god-breathed, after all
__________________
I hope it feels so good to be right. There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?
Tango is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


» User Settings
User Name:

Password:

Remember Me?
» Quick Register
User Name:


Password:


Confirm Password


Email


Confirm Email


Check to Agree with forum rules

» Sponsored Links

» Links We Love
HD Wallpapers

PC Tech Forums

Myspace Layouts

Coupons Codes & Bargains

Deaths In Iraq


Take AF With You
Feed Icon   RSS  RSS-1   RSS-2 XML  JS


» Sponsored Links


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0
Copyright © 2006 - 2007 The Jibber Network. All Rights Reserved.