Agnosticism in Judaism, 2 articles by a Chabad rabi

Dirge · 04-10-2007, 12:31 PM

2 nice articles by Rabi Tzvi Freeman, for those of you wondering how Agnosticism can go hand in hand with judaism...

I realy enjoyed them =]

Is God Agnostic?
What do Agnostics believe?

by the way, I am new here, and new to the whole Agnostic way in general. still not sure about it, but it sounds about right =D

<--- and this is a cool smiley heh

peace

**The An-Jel** · 04-11-2007, 02:10 AM

So how are you Agnostic considering Jews are far from Agnostic?

Dirge · 04-11-2007, 02:36 AM

Saying that jews are far from Agnostic is like saying that christians are as well..
It depends on the person.
Like in Christianity, Judaism has many streams with many minor and sometimes major differences.
I consider myself Jewish because of association with jewish culture. My beliefs differ a bit from the modern jews, but just as the meaning behind this forum states, I'm not going to be the person who says what is true and what is not.
Judaism in general is a very open minded religion (except for the orthodox jews). Most modern day rabis teach that God is not a part of the real world, nor that the Tora (bible) is a historical document (opposed to christianty) but rather that God is your contiousness that directs you to do good in life, and that the Tora is a collection of stories with morals that if understood, makes a man understand what is important in life (friendship, helping the helpless and so forth).
And BTW, not many people know this, but Tora which is taught in most schools in Israel stand by what I just wrote, not preaching beliefe in God, but rather the meaning behind the Tora stories and the importance of letting your "inner God" show you the way of light and acceptence.

So yes, I am jewish, and damn proud of it. And with that, I don't claim God to be real or not. But if he/she is up there, Im sure he's/she's having a good laugh about now, enjoying this sitcom world.

**The An-Jel** · 04-11-2007, 03:02 AM

Smiling.

I see what you mean.

Jews are beginning to see that what they have been forced fed over the years has been probably exaggerated and demonized by controlling sects over the years. Maybe they have been influenced and what they previously believed might be in doubt hence their evolution not to actually to believe in Jesus as a Messiah because of the rather ill chosen words by the Messiah proved in reality to be well... maybe kind of ludicrous?

Dirge · 04-11-2007, 03:38 AM

Every person for himself on this one =]

its not accurate to sum up any conclusion on the jewish beliefs, because not everyone believes the same, even in the same religion. just like its not true to say that all asains are good at math.. There deffenently are many orthodox jews in the world; but generely speaking, yes, judaism is (in my opinion) the most open minded of the major religions, for all reasons and none.

**The An-Jel** · 04-14-2007, 04:29 AM

So speak for yourself and speak about your hopefully objective observations. That is what I am asking. I can speak for myself. You as a Jewish person can at least speak this way to me considering you started the thread.

Dirge · 04-14-2007, 06:27 AM

I don't understand what you mean
I am speaking in the most objective way I can..
did I offend you some way how, or imply that what I say is 100% right?

**The An-Jel** · 04-14-2007, 03:51 PM

I meant and I guess the context of the forum prevents my intention in my last post. I just meant I'd like to hear, in your words especially since I never been to Israel and never even met a Jewish person before.

I guess my misinterrpretation of your post is that you can't read these people's minds and you didn't want to I was hoping for an objective concensus. Thats probably what you were giving.

Are you really saying that Jewish people are debating whether there is a God or whether the God in the Torah is correct or what is going on?

Dirge · 04-15-2007, 01:33 AM

It is more acceptable today, in Israeli modern day Judaism, that the question if God exists, is irrelevent. If you believe in what the Tora (bible) preaches in terms of being a good person, and having faith in humanity, then you are living the way God intended, if you believe in him/her or not. So even as a jew, it is ok to question God as a being, and to accept that he is merely our consience. In Israel we have a popular saying "Every man shall live with his beliefs."

I hope I made it a bit more clear

**The An-Jel** · 04-15-2007, 08:37 PM

Wow a written Philosophy is simply that. That is completely progressive. What they beleive is that you are living in a Godly manner. Jews took a step down and I am impressed. I really am. Pious and unanswerable. Beside the point. The Jews are looking up... fantastic that the very plague they spread on this world is the not the answer. I like it.

So now they know it isn't the answer what is... just being Godlike?