jaej

Well what do christians believe about palm sunday? If they knew the jews were misled, and they know that he is going to die in a week, what is the significance?

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Journeyman

1. The Bible subtitles that section, "The Triumphal Entry". Christians have been led to believe that all of Jerusalem was so happy that he was the anointed one that they celebrated his entry as a King who taught peace and love, yet viciously turned on him a couple of days later. Mean ol Jews.lol

BTW: Most Christians have no idea what they believe.

2. Most Christians have no idea what the Jews thought. The Jews would have been horrified that YHWH would have had a "son" and then sacrificed him. The Jews detested human sacrifice, Abe and Isaac, and the Torah teaches that everyone is responsible for their own sins.

3. There are several theories on the Jesus Atonement. Most denominations assimilate all of the theories so that none make logical sense.

4. None of this really matters to an Atheist.

jaej

When you were a minister, what denomination were you? I ask because my parents make me go to church with them, so I just wondered what you were and what your thoughts were.

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debdodd

What is your opinion of the "gospels" found in 1945 ... I've read some of them and am curious what significance, if any, you see in validating or adding to the Bible. Do you think that b/c life was such a patriarchal society that they left out a gospel by a female? (Nicea council) ... just curious 'cause you seem to have a great down to earth grasp of biblical studies and are able to explain things without the fanaticism we get from others (faith). just kidding faith, I swear to God, I'm just kidding .......

Journeyman

I guess you are referring to the collection of texts discovered in Nag Hammadi in Egypt. The Council was a mess. Many factions jockeying for political positioning. There are so many texts that have been dismissed or considered heresy that I can't keep up. In fact, the Catholic Church adopted the Apocrypha, but Luther insisted in the modern version of the New Testament. So this isn't just something that happened in antiquity. The debate continues on. There are a couple of thoughts I have on this:

1. Many of the books were dismissed because of theological inconsistencies. I am sure you have read them. The Bible has enough as it is without having to complicate things more.
2. Many were afraid that some of the books were heavy on angels. They feared Christians would begin angel worship.
3. With the inconsistencies it is difficult to find out who Jesus was really was.
4. The emperor called the Council because his nation was under duress due to the factional religious turmoil. He demanded they settle and become unified. It has nothing to do with what was right or wrong, but politics.
5. Read Misquoting Jesus by Ehraman. It is a great book that challenges the authenticity of scripture and explains how it really is quite unreliable.

Yes it was and is a patriarchal culture. Please read any of Reuther's writings on the subject. She is a Feminist Theologian and has some very poignant things to say concerning the misinterpretation of scripture. Of course man wrote it, and what do people in power want to do? They want to keep it...so they subjugate women and reduce them to disposable roles.

I took a course a while back and my professor did the following and I have used it several times since then:
She listed "God" on the left side of the board and on the right hand side of the board she wrote the word, "Humanity." From there we all listed other dualisms we were familiar with. "light/dark, mind/body, rational/emotional, right/left, science/mysticism, active/passive, assertive/receptive, subject/object, good/bad". The dualisms were easy to list and we knew the correct order. At the very end, she took a transparency and laid it over our words. On the left hand side of the screen was the word, "male" and on the right hand side was the word "female." A shocking silence followed as we looked at the two lists: God, light, mind, rational, right, science, active, assertive, subject, good, male on one side and humanity, dark, body, emotional, left, mysticism, passive, receptive, object, bad, female on the other side. "This is what feminist theologians are critiquing--an ancient pattern of thought, almost unconscious, that identifies God with male and humanity with female and you can see what is and is not valued in our culture."

The Bible, like everything, is a product of culture. A Christian must be willing to accept this to have a true understanding of Jesus and his mission. I highly recommend reading Remedial Christianity by Paul Laughlin if you want to take your faith seriously. He takes you through the realities of scripture and modern historical criticism so that you can attempt to maintain your faith without totally sacrificing your intellect.

debdodd

Yes those were the books that I was referring to (knew you'd know).

Me? have faith?? no way. I am old enough to have put that behind me.

I think I had questions regarding my faith once I read the Nag Hammadi and associated literature. I wanted to believe in God so bad, wanted to be able to pray to him and get answers, at one point I would have considered sacrificing virgins if I thought it would have helped .(just kiddin') I prayed, begged, pleaded with my God .... na da .... once I started exploring why my prayers weren't answered ... what I was doing wrong as a Christian for God not to answer my prayers, what did I need to do for him to listen?, etc .... the more I read ... well .. like you, I changed with knowledge.

The only reason I even read that sort of text now is because I have an int erst in cultural anthropology history and it's impact on beliefs today.

Don't you find it ironic that they wanted us only to believe in the "sanctioned angels" or that only certain people couldn't interface with th angels? From what I remember the Emperor was a pagan when all this was going on and only converted/embraced christianity on his death bed.

My list of must read books gets longer the more I read threads on the forum. Thanks for your input, I was just curious about your take on them. Deb

jaej

Is that really true? I thought it was just a rumor that Constantine converted on his death bed.

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debdodd

JAEJ:

I believe it's true .... if I'm not mistaken it was his wife that wanted him to convert and he walked the line between the two religions .... kind of "hedging his bets". Hell, half of history could be rumor for all I know

jaej

Aint that the truth. Lol. I think that might be the first time I've ever typed aint in my life (and the second).

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Beanmann

Hi

I am what would be conventionally called "an ex-christian". After all the revelations of conventional christianity and its direct corrolation to ancient pagan religions that were in power at the time of jesus (Yashua).


When confronted by christians about my decision, i simply replied that they have forgotten the most important aspect about the man Yashua, and that is that he was and always will be a Jew who observed Torah and attended synagogue...

After doing more and more research, the more my convictions were confirmed about the ethnicity of Yashua was erradicated by the pagan worshippers of the time.

I am currently converting to reform Judaism, seing as they have a less formal structure and are more focused on worshipping G_d and livinga righteous life, than arguing about who is right and wrong. They believe that all came from G_d and to him all shall return, as long as they are righteous...

A few sights to visit :

www.ebionite.net
www.sabbatarian.com

These are very informative sights. You can also just visit wikipedia and look up terms/names such as:

Essene
Ebionite
Sabbatarian
Yehashua
Yashua


Look at the historical facts and then make your own decision. the decision for me was not easy, because it affected my relationship with friends and family. I don't celebrate any of the pagan celebrations anymore, (christmas, easter etc.) which makes things difficult with family... They do seem to be getting used to the idea.

Anyway, as i said... Go visit the sites, do your own historical and theological checking and then make your own decision.

If you have any useful info or tips, please let me know...