why >>> islam ??? - Page 3

sisterX · 08-08-2007, 05:57 PM

Xenu for someone who lives in the middle east and who used to be a muslim, your knowledge of islam, the quran and islamic History is extremely poor. I think you've read too many silly internet sites.

Princess of Peace · 08-09-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenu

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

[9.23] O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

A small sample from the manual of terrorism... I mean the Koran!

'manual of terrorism'? surely you should have better knowledge of the Quran before you make such an assertion. the Quran is probably the most peacefull of all the scriptures.

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (2:190)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (5:28)"

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! (10:99)"

"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (24:54)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (109:1-6)"

as for the first couple of verses you quoted. these are so completely out of context. i referred to them in a previous post so here it is a gain.

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perhaps you are unaware that a treaty was made between the muslims and polytheists, to which the polytheists broke. God then gave them 4 months to repent of their crimes. when the 4 months were up, war was declared on them.
[9:13] "Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first ? What! Fear ye them ? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers"
As you can see, they were the first to attack the muslims.

for those that didn't break the treaty, God tells the muslims to keep their treaty to them. [9:4] "Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

God even tells the muslims to help those that ask protection of the muslims. [9:6] "And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not."

xenu · 08-09-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Princess of Peace

as for the first couple of verses you quoted. these are so completely out of context. i referred to them in a previous post so here it is a gain.

With this twisted logic, even your verses are out of context. Not to mention that those verses were said at the beggining when mohammad was still powerless. Later on when he became more powerful he also became more violent. Even the most prized verse: 2:256 there is no compulsion in religion is very out of context like that.

xenu · 08-09-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterX

Xenu for someone who lives in the middle east and who used to be a muslim, your knowledge of islam, the quran and islamic History is extremely poor. I think you've read too many silly internet sites.

I read books, (and average of 5 each week) which is something you should consider doing if you want to get out of the problem of being a muslim and becoming a bit more enlightened.

**Jayhawker Soule** · 08-09-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenu

I read books, (and average of 5 each week) which is something you should consider doing if you want to get out of the problem of being a muslim and becoming a bit more enlightened.

Perhaps a few books on bigotry would help ...

Princess of Peace · 08-11-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenu

With this twisted logic, even your verses are out of context. Not to mention that those verses were said at the beggining when mohammad was still powerless. Later on when he became more powerful he also became more violent. Even the most prized verse: 2:256 there is no compulsion in religion is very out of context like that.

not all of them were said when the prophet pbuh was still powerless. is the point you're trying to make that murder and forcing religion on an innocent person, is okay in islam because if so, you're showing yourself to be very ignorant.

the verses that i quoted didn't neccassarily mean that killing is always sinful, surley even you would admit that not fighting back when a war is waged on you is impractical.

this verse illustrates my point better. "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (2:190)"

btw, i don't recall quoting verse 2:256 anywhere. some muslims like quoting it, but i personally don't.

i prefer using verses like the ones below (and i don't see how they're out of context since i quoted all 6 veses of surah 109)
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (109:1-6)"

the verses that you quoted were out of context and when put into context showed that Muhammed pbuh was only fighting back against those that had attacked his people first.
saying the verses i quoted are out of context is mindless, since even if they were put into context, wouldn't prove contradictory to the point i was making, which is that peace is always the perferable option islamically.
in your case puting the verses in context did prove contradictory to the point you were trying to make, which was that the Quran was a "manual of terrorism" and that the Quran condoned senseless killing of non-muslims.

**The An-Jel** · 08-14-2007, 12:28 AM

I like female Islamists best of all so far. Who can you list the Quran? Was it people like you or me or who?

sisterX · 08-14-2007, 11:41 AM

Anjel you will have to re-phrase that question, I didn't get it, sorry.

alexie · 09-06-2007, 04:36 AM

ISA KNOWS THE WAY TO HEAVEN
Where Isa is now Koran, Surah 3
55 And when Allah said: O Isa, I
am going to terminate the period
of your stay (on earth) and cause
you to ascend unto Me and purify
you of those who disbelieve and
make those who follow you above
those who disbelieve to the day of
resurrection; then to Me shall be
your return, so l will decide
between you concerning that in
which you differed.
What to say about this verse:
3:55 It is exciting to read from the Koran that those who follow Isa
and do his work will be lifted above all the unbelievers in the world
At this point you will find this story helpful:
If I wanted to get from here to the capital city, who should I
choose to help me? Should I choose someone who has
never been there or someone who knows the way and lives
there now?
According to the Koran, Isa came down from heaven and is in heaven
today. Therefore Isa knows the way and can help us get there.

xenu · 09-06-2007, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexie

ISA KNOWS THE WAY TO HEAVEN
Where Isa is now Koran, Surah 3
55 And when Allah said: O Isa, I
am going to terminate the period
of your stay (on earth) and cause
you to ascend unto Me and purify
you of those who disbelieve and
make those who follow you above
those who disbelieve to the day of
resurrection; then to Me shall be
your return, so l will decide
between you concerning that in
which you differed.
What to say about this verse:
3:55 It is exciting to read from the Koran that those who follow Isa
and do his work will be lifted above all the unbelievers in the world
At this point you will find this story helpful:
If I wanted to get from here to the capital city, who should I
choose to help me? Should I choose someone who has
never been there or someone who knows the way and lives
there now?
According to the Koran, Isa came down from heaven and is in heaven
today. Therefore Isa knows the way and can help us get there.

There is no proof that he went to heaven. It could have been a hallucination.

Many people who use psychodelic drugs have hallucinations that they went to haven. That does not mean it is true.