MickinEngland

Huh??
There are christian women clergy nowadays!
Can't recall ever having seen a woman Imam though... ;)

mohamedhassan

Firstly, muslims try hard not to kill each other and this shia vs sunni thing is something thats instigated by the west. Its obviously got politaical propaganda all over it. The shia's are a newer form of islam that never existed during the time of the prophet and is a bit deviant.

I'd like to add you said "there are christian women in clergy nowadays!" what does this refer to? are you saying back when the relgion was started it didn't have women in clergy and now you have? in that case its obvious that you've deviated from you own relgion

In islam the mother (who is the women) enjoys the highest respect. If a child is cursed by his mother and he or she doesn't take care of the mother at old age the child is doomed to hell! Women, like the brother mentioned, are equal to men in the site of god but are different in nature (you havn't seen men trying to get pregnent have you). The man is obliged to protect the women at all costs and is forbidden from hitting the women. The hitting you quoted before doesn't refer to 'wife beating' (which is explicitly prohibited in islam) but to a slight tap (no joke!) muslims aren't even allowed to beat their servents.

In islam the women is well protected against dangers, which a reason behind the viel. How many times do you feel like a man is undressing you with his eyes (even though thats no 100% protectable against) islam works to reduce that. and by doing so adultery and fornication are reduced (how can you reduce either with girls walking around with tang tops and thongs! no possible)

Like in any culture and tradition you'll have people who are extreeme so don't go by what the people do but by what allah ordered in the quran and what the prophet did.

I'll like to end with this translation of a verse from the quran (not the quran is written in arabic and anything in any other language is a translation and the arabic can not be changed)

"We have enjoined on man kindness to his
parents: In pain did his mother bear him and in pain did she give birth. The
carrying of the child to his weaning is a period of thirty months. At length when
he reaches the age of full length and attains forty years, he says, 'O my Lord!
Grant me that I may be grateful for thy favour, which thou hast bestowed upon
me and upon both my parents, and that I may work righteousness such as thou
magest approve; and be gracious to me in my issue. Truly have I turned to thee
and truly do I bow (to thee) in Islam' such are they from who we shall accept the
best of their deeds and pass by their ill deeds; (they shall) be among the
companions of the Gardens a promise of truth, which was made to them (in this
life)" (Al Quran XLVI 15,16)

xenu

The Shia - Sunni Problem arose shortly after Mohammed's death where there was a dispute on who should rule after him. This is a 1400 year-old problem. Not an Westernn Conspriacy!

The Shia are not exaclty deviant and you should read more before writing anything more!

There are other reasons for the veil and I can assure you that it is not protection but subdugation. Moreover Islam does not exactly protect women. Men are allowed to beat their wives, you know.

I will respond to this with this simple verse that tells you to "not to show any love or friendship to those who oppose Muhammad, even if they are [your]parents":

9:23-24

Believers, do not befriend your fathers or your brothers if they choose unbelief in preference to faith. Wrongdoers are those that befriend them.
Say: ‘If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your tribes, the property you have acquired, the merchandise you fear may not be sold, and the homes you love, are dearer to you than God, His apostle and the struggle for His cause, then wait until God shall fulfill His decree. God does not guide the evil-doers.’

sisterX

Actually the CORRECT quotation of that verse is this:

O you who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that you have gained; the commerce in which you fear a decline: or the dwellings in which you delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious.

There are also many verses talking about kindness to parents even if they disbelieve:
Your Lord has enjoined you to worship none but Him, and to show kindness to your parents. If either or both of them attain old age in your dwelling, show them no sign of impatience, nor rebuke them; but speak to them kind words. Treat them with humility and tenderness and say: ‘Lord, be merciful to them. They nursed me when I was an infant.’ S. 17:23-24

"If (either of them) they try to force you to make you associate partners to
Allah then do not obey them. But rather be a companion with them in `ma'ruf'
(that which is good). And take the path of one who has submitted to Allah."

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

xenu

Still the same. it's only a difference in translation. It still counts as mistreatment of parents. Moreover, there has beeh historical precedence at the time of mohammed of the mistreatment of parents.
Moreover, the arabic word AWLIYA` here means family not protectors. Parents in Arabic are reffered to as awliya' amer (singular: waliy amer)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterX Say: If it be that your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your mates, or your kindred; the wealth that you have gained; the commerce in which you fear a decline: or the dwellings in which you delight - are dearer to you than Allah, or His Messenger, or the striving in His cause;- then wait until Allah brings about His decision: and Allah guides not the rebellious.

I think this one proves my point!

This one does not say anything about them when they are non-believers. It says show kindness to your parents. But when your parents are infidels you reffer to 9:23

This one has no source!

sisterX

Sorry the source for the last verse is Quran 31:15

This mean even if they are disbelievers you MUST be kind to them, they may believe in the future!
Islam condems the severing of relationships with parents.

And yes, we are supposed to Love God and His messenger more than anyone or anything else.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

xenu

31:15 starts sctually from 31:12 and extends to 31:20. It is a scenario with Luqman and his son. This is not a generalization. It only applies to this case.
If you chose to make it a general rule then this becomes a contradiction (Which there are many) in the koran.

sisterX

Xenu most of the verses in the Quran talk about diferent senarios and there are stories in the quran of many prophets including Luqman, the rules for them is the same as the rules for us there is no difference unless God so states.

The first verse you quoted talks about taking non-muslim parents as protectors, and notice it says nothing about mothers, rather "fathers and brothers" This is because many fathers and brothers would take up arms against their own during Jihad at the time of the prophet, the fathers and brothers were the ones who could not accept their son or brother turnng to Islam.

Many conspired with the leaders of the Quraish and that is why God tells s not to take them as our protectors.

Sorry but you are wrong.

Furthermore, the word awliya means friends in terms of helpers, protectors, and supporters. It does not mean family, the word Aali means family.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

sisterX

what contradictions are there in the Quran, you can make a separate thread if you like.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

wais shirzai

I must start my post with the Qouatation from the Glorious Qur'an From surah nahl chapter:16 verse:125 which says that invite all to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful Preaching and argue with them in the ways that are best and most Gracious...


May i have your Questions Please xenu ....?