mohamedhassan

it seems you use the language of mockery more then the language of reason. If you took a couple of seconds to read over it maybe you would understand

alexie

Here is a far better explanation for a diety! No, God is not on a diet!!!heehee

But seriously.

1-Universe had a beginning. How do I know? because of the expanding universe, light spevtrum measurements etc. I realise there are other theories but none come close to the Big bang.
2- Anything created has a cause. Why? because science shows this to be true and everyday observations. The principle of causality.
3- The universe was created and thus has a cause.
4- The cause is outside time, space and known physical laws.
5- The most possible answer is God. There may be others but none have been shown to come close to this answer.

Before people jump in, God is eternal and thus not created.

alexie

alexie

Hi'all

A better explanation then the hand slapping thing is this one.
Do you love someone or anything? Can you scientifically prove it? No. as it is a non-material thing. Can you see it? No, unless you include an act of love which still does not prove that love exists. God is the same sort of explanation.

alexie

alexie

Hey Grant

I will now mock you. Mockery is fun but i reckon even if you had a brain and a half you would not understand the posts enough to know what to laugh at.

heehee

alexie

Og

No, this is a provincial understanding of the universe. If you really cared about the answer to this question and weren't just looking for a stance that confirmed your belief then you would have studied and realized that the observed behavior of the universe DOES NOT say that the universe must be caused.

Also, it's absurd to say that something is a cause (i.e. party of causality) and also that it is outside time/space/physics. If it is not a part of time/space it can not be a cause.

The words you're putting together form gibberish from a modern astrophysical perspective.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Og

You can scientifically approach the question. You can ask "do you love this person" and they can answer "yes"... That is what is called a measurement. It could be true or false, but it is still a scientific measurement.

Furthermore, love is the behavior of a neural network in a complex fashion. It can be described. It is a complex pattern of interacting cells in the brain (measurable).

If God EXISTS, god has an effect. If he has an effect, he can be demonstrated to exist. Going on and on about the limits of human language is silly. Learn mathematics. It's a generalized structure designed to convey any idea of any form.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

kjk437

Oy, I'm a math major and all I want to do right now is stop learning math and start using it.

Anyway, tangibility is at the core of problem here, as was mentioned above in regards to the salt story. At any given point in time I can know what is causing physical pain, but I can never know "god" is acting through me.

alexie

Dear Og

You stated,"then you would have studied and realized that the observed behavior of the universe DOES NOT say that the universe must be caused."
Well, what is the observed behaviour of the universe? Are you saying it is eternal? What shows you this? Or are you saying the universe came from nothing? If so what tells you this?

You also stated,"If it is not a part of time/space it can not be a cause."
You are making anabsolute staement here and so must have absolute proof here. Well, what is that proof?

About love you stated,"Furthermore, love is the behavior of a neural network in a complex fashion. It can be described. It is a complex pattern of interacting cells in the brain (measurable)." Please tell me the measurement tool used, the data collected so far and the proof that love really does exist scientifically. How much does love weigh then? What happens when somone stops loving someone else and why do people locve some but not others. This data you speak of should be able to tell us this and more.

alexie

alexie

Dear kj4

You stated,"At any given point in time I can know what is causing physical pain, but I can never know "god" is acting through me." Absolute staements require absolute proof. So what proof do you have that god is absolutley unknowbale and thus never know He is acting through you? You mentioned tangibility. You mentioned pain! But can you prove that you are in pain? Can you prove you love someone? Can you prove you are sad? Can you prove someone is lying or delusional when they say they know God? I often hear athiests or agnostics speak about materialism and that this is all we can test and prove. They then go on about non-material things and give it a material basis yet God does not come into that equation and they say its impossible.
This is a contradiction and one that cannot be explained away.

alexie

Og

I'm saying none of these. Saying "Before the beginning of the universe" is not something that really makes any sense given our understanding of space. Time is a property of matter and seems to have no meaning at a singularity. Ever heard of gravitational time dilation? It's an observed behavior of the universe.

Exactly how does something interact with time/space if its not part of it?

As to the nature of the brain, I direct you to any modern neuroscience text book and any text on engineering systems analysis.

As for the weight of love, that's silly. What's the weight of lightning or of a tornado? What's the weight of green? These are clearly defined properties of systems.. just as love is a property of the human brain. A behavior of a system does not have weight. That's just silly to say.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are