redcliff

If Jesus really claimed to be god then Islam is in trouble: Islam considers him as a prophet but not divine, but if he claimed to be divine he has either committed the ultimate blasphemy or was a madman or a crook; and someone who is guilty of one of these charges is not a prophet material. (of course if he really was divine then they are also in the wrong)

So actually, if we had an uncontestable historical proof that he did claim divinity (or even to be the messiah) it would be a major problem to Islam.

The An-Jel

I know we have a couple Muslims in here and they apparently have the Q'uran on their computers. I would be very interested to see articles from the book about Jesus. I am Western so I have heard all about (nauseating and unbelievable as it is) Jesus as Messiah and Son of God and such. What is the Islamic interrpretation of Jesus.

No judgement here I am agnostic.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

The An-Jel

Tell me about Muslims and Mohammad and Jesus... that would be great!

Curiousity you know...

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

mezzen

The Qur'an denies the divinity of Jesus and verses are directed at the Christians asking them not to deify him, "Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son." As in Christianity, the Qur'an tells of the Annunication and the Virgin Birth. It acknowledges Jesus' prophethood and the status as a Messenger of Allah by bringing the Gospel, just as Muhammad brought the Qur'an. Something not mentioned in Christianity is the ability of Jesus, according to the Qur'an, to speak as a baby, "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet; And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live; (He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable; So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! The 'raised up to life' is of course interpreted as the resurrection of all humans for the Day of Judgement. However, several miracles in common with Christianity are mentioned, "And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave." The Qur'an mentions that Jesus prophecized Muhammad and the people persecuted him because of this, and it states that Jesus avoided death on the cross, instead, he was 'raised up' to Allah.

The Qur'an doesn't explicitly state the return of Jesus, although one verse is sometimes interpreted to mean he will return during the End Times. However a multitude of hadith (reported sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) do describe Jesus and his return. Both his description and purpose are given in hadith, When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine and abolish jizyah. Allah will cause all religions except Islam to perish. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him. Some hadith state he will appear near a mosque in Damascus. Breaking the cross is usually taken to mean that he will denounce or illegalise the Christian belief. The Dajjal (Antichrist) is also called Messiah in the same way as Jesus, meaning that they are marked by Allah. Two of Dajjal's power are that he will be able to cause rain to cease or fall and bring people back to life, however Jesus will have the power to kill the Dajjal.

The first major sign of the End Times is the appearance of the Dajjal and hadith say that every Prophet since Adam has warned his people of the coming of the Dajjal. The Dajjal will be the most evil of people to have ever existed and will spread disbelief throughout the world and finally claim himself to be God. Few Muslims will be able to confront him face-to-face and remain as believers, and other Muslims will resist the Dajjal's armies under the leadership of Imam Mahdi (who will have earlier united either the Arabs or the Muslims). Jesus will be sent at this time in order to kill the Dajjal since the Muslims will have no power to do so. Jesus will cause the Dajjal's armies to perish and the Dajjal himself will be speared by Jesus at Lydda. The remainder of the armies will be hunted down and killed until there is no more disbelief. Jesus is then a just ruler of the Earth for 40 years until his death after which disbelief will eventually return until there is no belief, resulting in the final major sign, the rise of the Sun from the West, the end of life and the start of the Day of Judgment.

The An-Jel

Alright that was greatly enlightening about the difference between the two religions in regards to Jesus. While Jesus obviously appears to be an interesting character in the Muslim religion he appears to be a person that heralds in the coming of Muhammad in Allah's name. Aside from destroying the Dajjal, he appears more like a harbinger of all the good Muhammad has brought and will bring to the world on Judgement Day.

Did I describe that accurately enough? I am a complete layman when it comes to most of the Muslim religion.

Well I can see the conflict between Christianity, Islam, and all religions. Doesn't seem like it can't be resolved between The Pope, Ayatollah Ruhollah, and whoever else might make a difference for the world.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Faith

Whoever said this is a fool. God is not going to be happy with the muslims who said this about his son, nor will Jesus be happy. Jesus spoke no such words. Jesus died on the cross, everyone knows this. And everyone knows Jesus never spoke about "allah". Notice the special occasions of rememberacne are about Jesus dying on the cross for us, raising from death, and his day of birth? It isn't called "Muslimas" now is it? Indeed muslims do deny Jesus's divinity, you got that right.

Og

This would be the definition of hubris.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

The An-Jel

That didn't really help with my understanding of the Muslim belief at all Faith

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Faith

Here, let me tell you something in the Quo'ran. Ok, back in the day during the crusades, Im sure you know almost everybody does, the Saladin who was a muslim basicly went around conquering cities just to make people believe in muslim faith.

The Quo'ran says to let your enemy have a chance to convert. If they do not convert, they must die.

The same thing is happening again. The terroist group are muslim, and they are following what the Quo'ran says. To kill people who don't follow. Yes, this is in the Quo'ran. I have a copy, not cause I read it for interest, but so that I may see why they do this. You can tell that this is not a God right there.

What are one of the ten basic commandments, "You shall not murder". These commandments have been around since God gave them to Moses. Thats a long time ago.

But I want to tell you something about this commandment. When it says, "You shall not murder" people think, ok, just don't kill anyone. If thats what you think, you have it wrong. You can sin in your mind just as much as you can physicaly. If you hate your brother, and this doesn't mean just your "family" brother, it means hate anyone at all, you are guilty of murder, and are in danger of God's judgement.

You are not to hate whatsoever, as Jesus said, "Love thy neighbour as you love thyself". Ok, you would make sure you have enough to eat, so make sure others have enough. etc etc. And as well, you are to bless those who curse you, if someone slaps your right cheek, let them slap your left.

Any form of hate is disgusting to God, and he wont tolerate it. So as I said in my other post, alot of people say they are Christians but are not. They can feed themselves but don't really care to make sure starving people are fed. It takes more to be a Christian than to just say, "Ya, i'm a Christian."

mezzen

Yes I'd say you have the general idea, although in Islam, Muhammad isn't thought to actually bring anything good or bad on Judgement Day per se, however he will represent the believers who lived since his time to the end of time. Each Prophet will have his own Ummah, or 'nation' of followers, who followed their laws till the next Prophet took over.