Test case?

MickinEngland · 12-12-2006, 12:20 PM

TEST CASE by Mick
The Koran is on sale in virtually every bookshop around the world including the West,and as it openly incites racial and religious hatred and violence,surely the shops selling it are liable to prosecution? Perhaps a "test case" is called for,to take a big western bookselling chain to court?

For example here are some typical Koranic verses:-
"Allah allows killing in a just cause and for revenge" (Koran 17:33)
"Your most violent enemies are the Jews" (Koran 5:82)
"Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" (Koran 5:51)
"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil) (Koran 9.123)
"O followers of the Bible, do not speak lies against Allah, but speak the truth;Jesus son of Mary is only an apostle of Allah,and not his son" (Koran 4.171)
"Jesus was not crucified or killed,it was a myth and illusion" (Koran 4:157)
"If you suspect your wife may desert you, beat her" (Koran 4:34)

Muslims try to defend the Koran by saying the Old Testament of the Bible can be just as harsh,but the fact is Jesus overuled the OT:-
"It was said 'eye for eye,tooth for tooth' but I say turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:38 )

Muslims also claim that Mohammed has just as much right to be listened to as Jesus,even though he had no credentials whatsoever. He simply claimed that he'd received revelations from Allah through the "angel Gabriel" alone in a cave,whereas the coming of Jesus had been prophesied for centuries throughout the Old Testament.
Jesus said:- "All things about me in the law of Moses,the Prophets and the Psalms,must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)

To sum up,the Koran appeals to Arabs because it's violent and anti-Jewish,and Mohammed played on this to boost his popularity,just as the Bible warned:-
"They prefer teachers who only tell them what they want to hear" (2 Tim 4:2-4)
And in places the Koran contradicts itself:-For example verse 2:136 says all of the prophets including Jesus are regarded as equal:-
"We make no distinction between any of them".
But verse 2:253 says "Allah.. exalted some messengers above others and gave miracles to Jesus the son of Mary and strengthened him with the holy spirit".!

One thing Muslims can never disguise is the fact that Mohammed is just a corpse in a box in Medina,whereas Jesus is not!
Jesus said :-"I'm with you always til the end of the world"(Matt 28:20)

FourBear · 12-13-2006, 02:50 PM

I think it's violent only if people interpret it that way. Just look at how many interpretations there are of the Bible.

Belle · 12-14-2006, 12:42 AM

I think it's difficult to make comparisons between the Bible and the Qur'an in that their historical and cultural contexts were quite different. Let's say we were to take the writings of the ancient Greeks and compare them with the writings of the Revolutionary War period in the US. If we were to read them and we were not to take into consideration the historical and cultural contexts of their respective times and places, we might very well misunderstand the writers' intent and purpose in writing in the first place.

Quote:

Obviously the Qur'an doesn't condone terrorism, though Muhammed was the leader of a military force and therefore used violence. "In the West," writes scholar Karen Armstrong in her book, Muhammad, "we often imagine Muhammad as a warlord, brandishing his sword in order to impose Islam on a reluctant world by force of arms. The reality was quite different. Muhammad and the first Muslims were fighting for their lives, and they had also undertaken a project in which violence was inevitable."

It is true, she says, that unlike Christianity, Islam's leader was not a pacifist. "Islam fight tyranny and injustice. A Muslim may feel that he has a sacred duty to champion the weak and the oppresed," she writes. "Fighting and warfare might sometimes be necessary, but it was only a minor part of the whole jihad or struggle. A well-known tradition (hadith) has Muhammad say on returning froma battle, 'We return from the little jihad to the greater jihad,' the more difficult and crucial effort to conquer the forces of evil in oneself and and in one's own society in all the details of daily life."

While there are passages in the Qur'an, like the Old Testament of the Bible, that celebrate military victory, the overall gestalt of the Qur'an promotes a more restrained view. Chapter 5, verse 32, for instance, states: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person--unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land--it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.

That passages places a great value on the sanctity of a single life. "If you kill one person it's as if you kill all humanity," says Imam Hendi.

Indeed, Hendi says, the Qur'an goes one step further in chapter 8, verse 61, "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah."

-- Beliefnet.com

tater03 · 12-14-2006, 03:15 PM

I would have to agree that it is only some of the people that use the Koran as means of there violence. I don't think it is a violent religion in the least for everyone.

MickinEngland · 12-14-2006, 04:19 PM

Then there's the matter of how Muslims kill animals for food, by cutting their throats and letting them bleed to death, its called 'halal' meat.
At least in christian slaughterhouses we shoot them in the head to kill 'em quick..

**The An-Jel** · 12-15-2006, 02:30 AM

Hey Mick thats how all of us " civilized" people eat meat to, you just don't see it dipshit. We don't shoot them, they call it a tap. Plenty of hunters go out and hunt down their own grub, voted for Bush, called themselves humanitarians, and stick their dicks in the nearest sheep or Irishman that gets close enough for them to wrangle.

Belle · 12-15-2006, 07:30 AM

Now this is interesting! There was a study done that compares the Western method of slaughtering meat to the Islamic method. Surprisingly enough, they found that the Western method was less humane and less hygenic.

Huh. Who'd of thunk that?

Quote:

I - Halal Method

1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision.

2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to a large quantity of blood gushing out from the body.

3. After the above mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all.

4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving maximum blood from the body: resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer.

II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning

1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning.

2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning.

3. The hearts of the animal stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Halal method resulting in the retention of more blood inthe meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer.

Why Islamic method of Slaughtering animals is better? A scientific reason

MickinEngland · 12-16-2006, 03:02 PM

Hey let's poll the animals to ask them if they'd rather die by having their throats cut or shot in the head :)

brig · 12-16-2006, 08:31 PM

Mick, as you may see from my previous posts, I am no longer a muslim, nor do I hold any likeness for the faith, but your arguments against Islam are pretty absurd. You take quotes from the Quran, in isolation and out of context, and only those which suit your argument. There are many quotes which actually directly contradict those you gave if you had bothered looking for them, like you did for your pro-bible quote. It's basically Daily Mail-esque Islamophobia by numbers.

The second part of your post is just theist semantics which do not concern me in the slightest, I refute Mohammed and Jesus equally

It's obvious you have a dislike for Islam, and I don't particularly like defending it, but at least have the courtesy to read and understand it properly before you condemn it based on half baked points. You will find valid points to argue against Islam if you look properly. A balanced, reasoned argument isn't too much to hope for from a theist is it?

Oh, and I think you will find the animals would rather not die either way, but then it's quite obvious you have conceded that debate.

Grant · 12-18-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickinEngland

Then there's the matter of how Muslims kill animals for food, by cutting their throats and letting them bleed to death, its called 'halal' meat.
At least in christian slaughterhouses we shoot them in the head to kill 'em quick..

I agreed with you somewhat on this up until here...