Apple Pie

Not only do we understand that the authors of the Koran proclaim that jesus Christ created the Universe - but now you feel compelled to post ayahs cementing His divinity...

Here is a classic example of the Koran proclaiming Jesus Christ as deity...


اتخذوا أحبارهم ورهبنهم أربابا من دون الله
والمسيح ابن مريم وما أمروا إلا ليعبدوا إلها
وحدا لا إله إلا هو سبحنه عما يشركون

Ittakhathoo ahbarahum waruhbanahum arbaban min dooni Allahi waalmaseeha ibna maryama wama omiroo illa liyaAAbudoo ilahan wahidan la ilaha illa huwa subhanahu AAamma yushrikoona

9.31 They have taken their learned persons and their monks (as) lords from superior (to) “allah” and The Messiah, Mary's Son; and they commanded not except that they may worship one god, no god except He, glory be to Him from what they associate partners.



Observe that The Messiah is included along with “allah” via the copulative conjunction “wa”, as being part and parcel of the prepositional phrase initiating with “min” (from).

Further, although "allah" and Jesus are listed separately, they are treated as ONE...via the singular "huwa" (him)...

This is the same exact method as used in the Holy Bible in many locations that proclaim the divinity of Jesus Christ...and, as such, the authors of the Koran have also copied this over into their opus.

The difference being that they have attempted to raise the pagan Arab god "allah" up to the Biblical deity status of Jesus Christ.

Apple Pie

Not quite.

Observe...

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.




Examining the words in question…





يكون = “yakoona”

“yakoona” definition:

Accusative case. He has been.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3004
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 500 -502
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 169






ل = “la”

“la” definition:

A prefixed affirmative particle, verily, surely, certainly, indeed, truly. Prefix: an affirmative intensifying particle, used as a corroborative. A preposition denoting possession. It is also used as a preposition expressing attribution, design. Inseparable adverbial particle.

References:
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 504 - 505
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 282
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 129






ه = “hu”

“hu” definition:

An indeclinable affixed personal or possessive pronoun of third person singular masculine; when affixed to a verb or preposition as a person pronoun, it means him or it; and when to a noun as a possessive, his or it. Singular personal or possessive pronoun. Him. Verbal suffix which expresses the accusative.

References:
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 100
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 152



Observe that there are no negatives in this phrase at all….only the affirmative…


Thus…


له = “la” + “hu” = “lahu” = certainly his





And the final word under consideration…





ولد = “waladun”

“waladun” definition:

Noun. Singular and plural. A child, son, daughter, youngling, or young one: and children, sons, daughters, offspring, young, or younglings,: of any kind: often applied to an unborn child, etc, a fetus.

It comes from the root “walada”, which means she (a woman, or mother, or any animal having an ear, as distinguished from one having merely an ear-hole) brought forth a child, or young one; or children, young, or offspring; to beget, give birth. He begot a child, or young one, etc.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2966 - 2968
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 620 - 621
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 162




Putting it all together we have….



….. “He has certainly been his Son”….

Jacob

To Apple Pie & Geshtinnanna:

Some believe that Mary may have been as young as 14 yrs. old when she gave birth to Jesus (Yeshua?) and that Jesus may have been the illigitimate son of a Roman soldier. Who knows? I do know this however; it is very silly for moslems and christians alike to trust the fate of the world to the rubbish that you attempt to advocate as the truth.

Jacob

Apple Pie

Observe...


بديع السموت والأرض أنى يكون له ولد ولم تكن
له صحبة وخلق كل شيء وهو بكل شيء عليم

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi anna yakoonu lahu waladun walam takun lahu sahibatun wakhalaqa kulla shay-in wahuwa bikulli shay-in AAaleemun

6.101 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth, that He has certainly been his Son, and not to be certainly his companion, and He created every thing that He will, and He on account of every thing that he will who knows.


According to this ayah, the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) is shown to have created the heavens and the earth.

Let’s see why this is true by simply looking no further than the first word…



Defining the word…


بديع = “badeeAAu”

“badeeAAu” definition:

Active 2nd participle. Originated; invented; innovated; made done, produced, caused to be or exist, or brought into existence, newly, for the first time not having been or existed before, and not after the similitude of anything pre-existing; new; wonderful; unknown before. An originator, inventor, or innovator; one who makes, does, or produces, causes to be or exist, or brings into existence, newly, for the first time and not after the similitude of anything pre-existing. Wonderful originator, without depending upon any matter or pattern or help; wonderful thing; thing which is not after the similitude of anything pre-existing. A novelty; or thing existing for the first time; a first doer; as though meaning one who has none among his fellows to share, or participate, with him in a thing, or an affair. Such a one is the first doer in this affair; the first who has done it. Applied to a man, superlative in his kind in anything; in good and in evil; or in knowledge, or courage, or nobility. A man liberal in disposition. A full body.

It comes from the root “bada’a” (ba-dal-ayn), which means to produce something new, begin a thing, find out a new thing; create a thing. He became superlative in his kind; or it became so in its kind; in good or in evil; he was, or became, fat.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 166 - 167
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 44
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 27


From the classic definition alone, we understand that the entire physical Universe was brought into being ex-nihilo (i.e. out of nothing – same as taught in the Holy Bible).

The classic definition also goes on to inform us that it applies to a man.

Thus, right from the very start, we have the premise that the Universe came into being – perhaps via a man.


So…


Where else is the word “badeeAAu” used in the Koran…?

It is used in only one other location….2.117

Here it is in context…


وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت
والأرض كل له قنتون

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona

2.116 And they said: " “allah” he has taken (a) child, glory be to Him, much more certainly His, that which (is) in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.”


(Note…yet another Koranic confirmation to Jesus’ being the Son).



Next…


بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما
يقول له كن فيكون

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

2.117 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is.



As amazing as it is, both of these Koranic ex-nihilo ayahs have the Son as the subject matter!


Fact is that the Son is fully acknowledged, and He is given His rightful position as the Creator of the Universe, as per the Holy Bible.

2.117 even goes so far as to specifically inform us that the Son is the Word through which the Universe came into being!

Further, the root “bada’a” and its three derivatives (which includes “badeeAAu”) all pertain to Jesus Christ in the Koran. Each and every single solitary time.

• 2.117
• 6.101
• 46.9
• 57.27

Thus, we can be completely confident that the authors who penned these ayahs understood the Biblical Jesus, and that they give full credit to Jesus for creating the known Universe…

Geshtinnanna

Apple, I see you have ignored my post directly to you. How nice. How about you go back to Free Jesus and continue what you do there? You are doing the same thing here. You are wrapped in an Agenda. Do unto others my friend. You wouldn't like someone picking a letter or word apart in your bible out of context. You wouldn't like it if someone was arguing with you over your own belief. You are a very bad Christian. Shame on you for being such a bad example. But go on, ignore me. Eventually I will just copy and paste all that you wrote there for everyone here to see how you operate.

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Geshtinnanna

I would give my right arm for someone to just post in some sort of respectful manner to someone eles'e faith. Are you people capable of that?

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Apple Pie

When is that boyfriend of yours going to show up....?

Geshtinnanna

For what?
I am actually going to nicely bow out of this thread. I have already seen how you post from the Free Jesus site. I don't need a repeat of it here.
Have a groovy day.

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Lecter

Dear Apple Pie,

The people that you get your information from would change the rules of the universe just to prove themselves right, rather than admitting the truth. Which is something I think Jesus Christ himself would recommend.

How is it that the word HIM can refer to two things?

Do they just make up rules in their head? the word "him" is can only be referring to one thing. In this case it's referring to God and saying that he has NO partners.

Furthermore, you have ignored or maybe just missed the verse before it, that describe the sayings of Christians that the Messiah is the son of God as something that is PERVERSE. And that they are only imitating those that disbelieved before them, probably referring to the pagan mythologies.

All I'm asking you to do is to actually read the text from an objective point of view. Don't read it and say to yourself, whatever it says I'm going to believe what they have told me about the Qur'an.

Have a nice day.

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I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.

Lecter

You and I are having a friendly debate, there is no need to take that tone with her.

I understand you disagree with me, but that is not an excuse to take things personally.

And know this, you speak to her like this again I WILL take it personally and you will not like that.

You got that?

Now try and act like a man once in your life time.

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I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.