Taqqyia

SirArthur · 09-05-2007, 10:12 PM

Taqqyia is a Muslim technique to lure people. Lying about what Islam is to match what the listener seeks.

Keep on mind however, before fall on this stupid technique and convert that the penalty for leaving Islam is death.
Furthermore, Islam works as a two tip arrow with ignorants. If you're ignorant enough to believe on Islam they will tell you Allah will punish you if you do not convert but also that Allah will punish you (Allah just keeps punishing all over Islam) if you do not FORCE others (the more intelligent who do not convert easily) to convert too - If they not convert kill them.

Geshtinnanna · 09-05-2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirArthur

Taqqyia is a Muslim technique to lure people. Lying about what Islam is to match what the listener seeks.

Keep on mind however, before fall on this stupid technique and convert that the penalty for leaving Islam is death.
Furthermore, Islam works as a two tip arrow with ignorants. If you're ignorant enough to believe on Islam they will tell you Allah will punish you if you do not convert but also that Allah will punish you (Allah just keeps punishing all over Islam) if you do not FORCE others (the more intelligent who do not convert easily) to convert too - If they not convert kill them.

That's odd. I thought it was the practice of being able to conceal your faith as in this link
Plus I think you spelled the word incorrectly.

greywolf90 · 09-05-2007, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirArthur

Taqqyia is a Muslim technique to lure people. Lying about what Islam is to match what the listener seeks.

Keep on mind however, before fall on this stupid technique and convert that the penalty for leaving Islam is death.
Furthermore, Islam works as a two tip arrow with ignorants. If you're ignorant enough to believe on Islam they will tell you Allah will punish you if you do not convert but also that Allah will punish you (Allah just keeps punishing all over Islam) if you do not FORCE others (the more intelligent who do not convert easily) to convert too - If they not convert kill them.

i don't know where you got this informatioin, but according to the muslims i know, they believe that only a few people will be punished by god, and that the majority of sinners (including non muslims) can still be forgiven after death.

taqiyyah is the act of choosing to verbally conceal one's faith in order to prevent harm when the life is in danger. some muslims accept this as being the lesser of two evils, while others see it as hypocrisy. it has nothing to do with luring people. also, i have never met a muslim who tried "forcing me to convert" and i've definately never met a muslim that committed murder. therefore, your comment is bias and completely inaccurate.

SirArthur · 09-06-2007, 05:29 AM

Turns out I never met a Christian that committed murder, or a Hindu and not a Muslim. But that's just lucky and it DOES NOT MEAN there's none on either of this religion followers.

The Taqyyia stands for dissimulation of faith, disguise. It was used for that purpose you claim by the Jews after 70 d.C., Muslim Taqyyia is however different on context.

As for them to not force you, that's probably because you are not in one of their countries neither in a country ruled by Sharia.

Once you love Wikipedia so much, here's something quoted from there:

Shi'a Taqiyya

Quote:

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”
(...)
They assert that Shi'as have been using taqiyya as a tool of deception, not to save their own lives, but to cause strife for the Sunni Calipha (which was resented by Shi'as) and to legitimize their own minority faith in the eyes of a majority by whom it is constantly surrounded.

Geshtinnanna · 09-06-2007, 11:13 PM

If you are gonna quote then quote it right. You quoted a paragraph under the SUNNI VIEW. You failed to post the paragraph under the Shi'a view. Now who is being deceptive? Don't do that again.

Quote:

1) Taqiyah is done for safety reasons. For example, a person fears that he might be killed or harmed, if he does not observe Taqiyah. In this case, it is obligatory to observe Taqiyah.

2) Reconciliatory Taqiyah. This type of Taqiyah is done when a person intends to reconcile with the other side or when he intends to soften their hearts. This kind of Taqiyah is permissible but not obligatory.
3) Sometimes, Taqiyah may cause a more important obligation to be lost or missed, if so it is forbidden. For example, when I know that silence would cause oppression and infidelity to spread and will make people go astray, in such a situation it is not permissible to be silent and to dissimulate.
4) Sometimes, Taqiyah may lead to the death of an innocent person. If so, it is not permissible. It is therefore haram (forbidden) to kill another person to save your own life.[9]

I gave the link so you could read it ALL and not just pick and choose. You are really bad at attempting to spread hate. Your continual posts only spread your ignorance and lack of ability to make anyone take you seriously.
Let me spell this out in language you can understand. You le suck.

SirArthur · 09-07-2007, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geshtinnanna

If you are gonna quote then quote it right. You quoted a paragraph under the SUNNI VIEW. You failed to post the paragraph under the Shi'a view. Now who is being deceptive? Don't do that again.

Quote:

1) Taqiyah is done for safety reasons. For example, a person fears that he might be killed or harmed, if he does not observe Taqiyah. In this case, it is obligatory to observe Taqiyah.

2) Reconciliatory Taqiyah. This type of Taqiyah is done when a person intends to reconcile with the other side or when he intends to soften their hearts. This kind of Taqiyah is permissible but not obligatory.
3) Sometimes, Taqiyah may cause a more important obligation to be lost or missed, if so it is forbidden. For example, when I know that silence would cause oppression and infidelity to spread and will make people go astray, in such a situation it is not permissible to be silent and to dissimulate.
4) Sometimes, Taqiyah may lead to the death of an innocent person. If so, it is not permissible. It is therefore haram (forbidden) to kill another person to save your own life.[9]

I gave the link so you could read it ALL and not just pick and choose. You are really bad at attempting to spread hate. Your continual posts only spread your ignorance and lack of ability to make anyone take you seriously.
Let me spell this out in language you can understand. You le suck.

"You le suck"... this sounds like an idiot using french articles between english words.

Sunnis are great on make up their religion acceptable, but by doing so they are the ones who commit Taqiyya not only over others but them self on the way.

But as stated on their books, which are the same, we can get:

Quote:

“Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them” (Qur’an 3:28).

The Sunni Qur’an commentator Ibn Kathir explains that in this verse “Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming supporters of the disbelievers, or to take them as comrades with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers.” However, exempted from this rule were “those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda' said, 'We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, 'The Tuqyah [taqiyyah] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.'"

Quote:

Al-taqiyya and dissimulation are words used for a practice of Muslims blatantly lying to non-Muslims. All but some of the most fundamental Muslims consider the act of Al-taqiyya or lying to non-Muslims to be a good work. This is very important when one remembers that, in Islam, salvation is determined by good works. This means that a Muslim lying to a non-Muslim is that Muslim doing a good work to earn salvation.

You also get MANY hate spreading statements along their books towards Christians and Jews in special.

Bukhari

Quote:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Quote:

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 427:

Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:

When the last moment of the life of Allah's Apostle came he started putting his 'Khamisa' on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets." The Prophet was warning (Muslims) of what those had done.

(This one turns funny, because they're the ones who pray turned to Mecca and made it a place of worship)

Quote:

Volume 3, Book 36, Number 471:

Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet said, "The example of Muslims, Jews and Christians is like the example of a man who employed laborers to work for him from morning till night for specific wages. They worked till midday and then said, 'We do not need your money which you have fixed for us and let whatever we have done be annulled.' The man said to them, 'Don't quit the work, but complete the rest of it and take your full wages.' But they refused and went away.(...)

etc, this one is a big stock pile of bullshit, but this enough to get the picture.

When comes to Islam and if you want to know what Islam IS without need to read their books, then listen to the fundamentalist, like Bin Laden, for those are the TRUE Muslims, the remaining ones are either "Taqiyyers" or are reselling the Taqyyia someone make on them (quoting Goebbels: A lie when repeated times enough becomes an incontestable truth).

About taking me serious, I really don't care about your opinion. Keep believing on the "Islam religion of peace" one of the most common Taqiyya BS, since both Shi'as and Sunnis follows Jihad, one by demand as one of the seven pillars (Shi'as), the other not on their five pillars but important as well (Sunnis is "Islam light"), and do not complaint on the day you've to trade your outfit for a burka. Do not think one is out of such just because s/he's on USA, Byzantine emperors were pretty much sure those Ottoman minority wouldn't be a problem... until the day it became in fact a problem.
No one can force you to leave ignorance.

You also may not to kill or harm Muslims, the aim must be the Religion only. Killing or harming people because their religions is potentially a murdering or hazardous one makes you no better than them. And I hope this gets clear, since most people understands attacks on religion to attacks on persons who follow that religion.

Geshtinnanna · 09-07-2007, 03:00 PM

Quote:

When comes to Islam and if you want to know what Islam IS without need to read their books, then listen to the fundamentalist, like Bin Laden, for those are the TRUE Muslims, the remaining ones are either "Taqiyyers" or are reselling the Taqyyia someone make on them (quoting Goebbels: A lie when repeated times enough becomes an incontestable truth).

Actually I prefer having a one on one dialog and learning conversation with an actual fundamentalist Muslim. He is able to answer all my questions in a very thorough way. It's a complex religion. I guess it's to my benefit I have one to talk with to clear up those complex issues. When you can converse with someone of their own faith, you are able to ask specific questions to clear up confusions. You might do well to talk with a Muslim friend.

SirArthur · 09-07-2007, 03:21 PM

Well, if one is a fundamentalist to speak with you has to be a woman (or your husband). A man can't; you're an "inferior form of life", "responsible for all hazards of mankind", "the one's who populate Hell", "source of all sin", "deficient on religion and life" among other nice things alike; just grab one of their books you'll read beautiful thing regarding women. Simple speak with you is consider promiscuity.

I should read your doctrines, as I did on Islam, prior to speak out on Satanism, I'm aware of that, but two point remains:

1. the word keeps to mislead towards the worship of devil, torturing of life forms, witchery, occultism and alike. Believe me, your way can be consider many things, but "Satanist" ain't one of them. Maybe "Rationalism" would apply better for your chosen path.

2. Satanism is a real minority that regardless what they do or think are no real threat to society; unlike Muslims, whom based on their number and doctrines are a really dangerous foe to the World.
As Agnostic I do not seek to understand theologies or dogmas, all I care when it comes to religion is the way that religion reflects on society - what conditionals, what rights, what duties, how they can or can't interact with others and so on. Muslim World is so different from West World, that if it implements on this side the World as we know it will cease to exist. Freedom will be no longer, equality will become a mirage, rights will narrow to near nothing (specially to women).
Four countries however are going towards a good direction on general: Secularism (equivalent to lay states on the West) - Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and Malaysia - but most of majority Muslim countries are still far from it. By what I saw on Middle East, I'm sorry but I do not want it here (nor there for that matters, that's just delaying Arab people and I've no particular fetich's on see people suffering).

Geshtinnanna · 09-07-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Well, if one is a fundamentalist to speak with you has to be a woman (or your husband). A man can't; you're an "inferior form of life", "responsible for all hazards of mankind", "the one's who populate Hell", "source of all sin", "deficient on religion and life" among other nice things alike; just grab one of their books you'll read beautiful thing regarding women. Simple speak with you is consider promiscuity.

Uh no. You are just so ignorant. I must point out a very big confusion you seem to be dealing with. There is a difference between Muslim rules and Cultural rules. Outsiders tend to get them confused.

SirArthur · 09-07-2007, 03:49 PM

My God! How ignorant and stupid can you be?! Probably must be because you're american, after all americans are just waisting time on Iraq and Afghanistan, blindly strike PEOPLE but leaving Islam intact when Islam is the source of what they are meant to fight, not the people - means they rather not go there on the first place, if it was to do such an ignorance rather stay home.

Islam is NOT ONLY A RELIGION goes far beyond that, it's designed to TAKEOVER ALL SOCIETY, once a society falls under Islam and Sharia there's no more "previous culture". Just by the time you understand that you can overlook what Islam is about and what it is meant to do.