nanners86

My boyfriend is an athiest and I am agnostic. He thinks that agnosticism is basically a way of saying that you are athiest but you are just too scared to completly say there is no god. He also thinks that agnostics are just waiting to be proven that there is a god. I disagree, I just don't know if there is a god and I don't think it will ever be proven, so screw it. I am not going to have faith in the belief that there is no god or that there is. In my view athiests have just as much faith as christians. I dunno, how do you fell about this? Do any of you agree with him?

Gringo

I agree completely with you. It takes just as much faith for an atheist to say there IS NO god as it does for a fundamentalist to say there is.

We just don't know, do we.

What we DO know for a certainty is that we are in THIS life right now, surrounded by other people who need kindness shown to them, no matter what their traits or beliefs are.

mtatum4496

I think it all boils down to a matter of personal conscience. Regardless of whether an individual chooses to identify himself or herself as a beleiver in a given religious faith, an agnostic, or an atheist, my approach is to accept that person at their word. Who am I to tell someone else how they should identify their faith and/or ideological beliefs?

I agree with Gringo. None us can know conclusively whether there is a god, or goddess or a pantheon of creators, etc. And whatever the current understanding of anyone, it does not preclude the person in question from possessing qualities of warmth, concern, caring, and respect for other people.

One of the kindest most caring people I know is a gentleman in my congregation who defines himself as an athiest. He is more than happy to explain his understandings to anyone who wishes to know, but I have never seen him insist others had to see things his way. I would much rather have him watching my back in a pinch than someone who thinks they have all the answers and everybody else in the world is wrong.

GloryB

I think in some instances your boyfriend is right, because there's an even bigger stigma to being an Atheist than there is to being Agnostic. But for the most part, some people just aren't sure either way. I don't agree that Agnostics are waiting for proof either way. Some people live their life on the fence. I am an Atheist and you're right that it takes just as much faith to say there is no God/dess as to say there is. I'm a to each his own kind of person. Whatever gets you through the day and helps you be a good person and good to others, go for it.

GloryB

George

Great thread!

I really want to write a long post on this topic because it really gets at the one of the largest reasons behind why I started this site. The differences between Atheists and Agnostics need to be addressed and the Atheists affinity for quickly dismissing Agnostics as cowards who won't take a stand. But I've got to go to lunch so I'll make this quick

A seldom brought up fact is that atheists are just as afraid of being wrong as fundamentalists. They're just a little more vocal (sometimes a bit more rude) when it comes to defending their position and if labeling agnostics as cowards or people that have accepted a false label helps their cause they will use that.

Yes it's true some "self titled" agnostics latch on to that label because they are afraid to carry the stigma of being an atheist. But those are not true agnostics. They're atheists afraid to be atheists. They are no more a true agnostic than an agnostic who really doesn't agree with everything atheists believe but still calls him or herself an atheist is a true atheist. In every group there will be flip floppers.

Truth is agnostics are not afraid to admit they don't believe in God, they're just brave enough to admit to themselves and others that they don't know. God absolutely could exist it's just that most agnostics believe that if he does it's probably not in the way any of the religious beliefs believe he does. In other words they're all probably wrong and need to admit they don't know too I personally don't believe in all that heaven or hell stuff, I just don't believe all this got here by itself. I also don't believe in the word "supernatural". I just believe it's just another word for something we don't understand. God is probably just a being (or group of them) that knows natural law a heck of a lot better than we do. God could even have existed in the past and no longer exists today. Who knows.

Ok this is getting long, ending now....

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DeadJerusalem

I dont think the 2 are mutually exclusive.

As Richard Carrier says in the documentary The God Who Wasn't There (or maybe it was in the bonus footage on the DVD) "I'm an atheist BECAUSE i'm an agnostic"

If i was on a jury of a murder trial and all the evidence pointed the suspect being guilty i would say "yes, i believe he's guilty". But i also know that without access to a time machine there is no way for me to be 100% certain. If you're going to answer "i dont know" to every question that you can't be 100% certain of then that's going to be your answer for everything.

In the same way I see tons upon tons of evidence that there is no god. But yes there is a chance i'm wrong. HOWEVER i think that chance is something like 0. (then a googolplex of 0's)1. Meaning, so small as to not be worth mentioning.

I find the word "agnostic" to be rather meaningless. EVERYONE is agnostic. Hindus are agnostic towards the Judeo-Christian god, and vice versa. We just happen to be agnostic towards all of them.

}SoC{Sumguy

wait, why is this in the introduction/greetings subforum?

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George

Actually you're generalizing (and using really bad analogies ). Agnostics state they don't know not because we know there isn't a God. In fact agnostic belief is based on the FACT that we know you as an atheist can't prove there isn't a God and you as a theist can't prove there is. So in all actuallity agnostic belief is based more on fact than either other side.

I'm an agnostic. Do you think that means I say I don't know to everything in life? Not hardly.

Not to sound elitist but in this great argument over God's existance we are the middle ground. The voice of reason. We're totally separate from atheists who tend to lean far extremist in their views. In fact by the very definition of both we are polar opposites. The most simple way I can explain the division between atheists and agnostics is that atheists believe in absolutes. We do not.

Then congratulations my friend. You are an atheist You see the same argument I use on christians I can use on you. (that fact alone should further define for you the seperation between atheists and agnostics).

The argument: You are an atheist. You believe there is nothing but tons of evidence against God's existance. It's all you can see. Yet deep down inside you know especially as a logical thinker that there is a chance you could be wrong. Yet you choose not to accept and embrace it because your steadfast belief that just because you can't see it it's not there won't allow you to. The same way christians feel when an atheist asks them a question about their religion they can't answer. It SHOULD make them realize their logic may be flawed but their faith in what they believe in won't allow them to.

Yes I can see why you find it meaningless. It's quite obvious from this quote you don't actually know what it means

Hope my post helped you a bit.

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DeadJerusalem

"atheists believe in absolutes"

Um, what? Atheists believe there is no god, there are no requirements beyond that. No defintion of atheism i've ever seen mentions anything about absolutes. Or refusing to admit that there's a chance of being wrong.

So sure, by the definitions that you and only you are using they are mutually exclusive. By the ones the rest of the world uses, they're not.

George

God does not exist. <--- That is an absolute.

Where's the confusion?

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