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Old 05-03-2007, 02:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
Johnathan
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Default Atheist/Evolutionists questioning his beliefs

Hello to all. In regards to the topic name, I am the atheist/evolutionist questioning his beliefs. I have been studying this forum for not very long but I have seen enough here only to further my questioning in my, perhaps former, beliefs in evolution. I am not sure where to start in this forum, so I guess I will take the typical introductive aproach. My name is Johnathan and I have been an atheist/evolutionist for a long time, but recently I have begun to question the theories which both atheism and evolutionism stand by. In a way, I am coming to despise it.

But anyways, hello again to all, and I would be interested in getting to know all of you.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Heh.. this is probably the wrong place to increase your understanding of evolution. I'd recommend popular science books or courses at your local university/community college.

But, at any rate, welcome!
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnathan View Post
Hello to all. In regards to the topic name, I am the atheist/evolutionist questioning his beliefs. I have been studying this forum for not very long but I have seen enough here only to further my questioning in my, perhaps former, beliefs in evolution. I am not sure where to start in this forum, so I guess I will take the typical introductive aproach. My name is Johnathan and I have been an atheist/evolutionist for a long time, but recently I have begun to question the theories which both atheism and evolutionism stand by. In a way, I am coming to despise it.

But anyways, hello again to all, and I would be interested in getting to know all of you.

There is no reason to question evolution. It is as factual as a scientific discovery gets. Have you read The Blind Watchmaker? One who questions evolution can question the validity of 1+1=2 with similar arguments. It is astoundingly clear that species evolve from other species.

Atheism, on the other hand, is flawed. It passes judgment one that which is not testable -- not very scientific. What is not testable is a nonissue. Period. The true essence of Agnosticism is very scientific.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think more than anything, evolution is like a closed door in the mind. Why? Well one, in my own experience, I found myself doing what most evolutionists do in when it comes to creation, and atheists to the existence of God, when they are proven wrong: Either, "There must be some other explanation," or "ok I was wrong about this one, so lets find a different explanation." The point is, it nevers comes down to an "evolution is wrong" conclusion, but a blind faith. Yes, I said a blind faith, startling for any evolutionist to hear who is so proud of his or her theory of scientific origin. This is just a guess, but I can bet no one here knows that the theory of evolution came from mythology? Greek philosephers. These are the same people who are made fun of by evolutionists for their rediculous claims. The theory of the universe being formed out of chaos, first came from the Greeks, and has been edited over and over throughout the centuries, until modern day when it has been proclaimed a scientific fact. So what we have here in regards to evolution is mythology. This is something that has been kept from the textbooks for obvious reasons.

I remember the time when I joined in with evolutionists saying "christianity is wrong, it is a blind faith, the bible is full of contradictions" etc etc. I get alot of challenges from Christians. I thought we were the ones supposed to be doing the challenging, but when we actually participate in the challenge without prejudice (an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason), we will find that there is alot we don't know about the theory of evolution. Alot of the truth of evolution is kept from the texbooks, and will probobly continue to be so until another "reasonable" theory is developed and established, and so forth. I didn't realise before, that the bones/fossils discovered on the supossed links (Neanderthal, Pilt-down, Cro-magnon etc) were actually turned over. The most astonishing thing about this, is it was overturned even by evolutionists, because the discoveries were either tampered with and chemically treated to make them seem older, or they were discovered as something else that has nothing to do with either species or mankind at all. Here is only a few examples:

First, there is the bones of lucy. Lucy was discovered by Dr. Donald Johnson, and she was suposedly an alleged link from ape to man, but many anthropologists who have studied lucy, lucy's remains say it is only an extinct ape, also known as anthropithacus. Another thing that they don't typically bring out is that the knee-joint that locks into place like a human knee-joint, that was part of lucy, anthropologists said there is no way, it is acutally a human knee, and what they also don't tell you is the fact that that knee-joint was found over a mile away from the rest of the skeleton, and over 200 feet deeper than the other bones. Meidcal anthropologists discovered that the knee was a normal human knee, and the rest of the bones belonged to an extinct ape.

The Pilt-Down man passed as an authentic find for forty-four years before it was shown that it had been outright deliberate frauding. They had shown that somebody filed down the teeth and they also treated the skull with chemicals to make it look older than it actually was. The Homo-Habulas (not sure on spelling) skull has been shown without any reasonable doubt by anthropologists (secular anthropologists) to be pieced together from at least two different species, and that is according to an evolutionary doctor named Dr. Stringer. Homo-Erectus isn't a half-man half-ape either, in fact, it is on public record and available to the public that the man who discovered it admitted before he died it was a fraud, and he explained exactly how he fraud-ed it. The Neanderthal man is human, and both evolutionists and creationists scientists agree on that. Plus anthropologists from John Hobskins university of medicine through X-raxs discovered that the Neanderthal man is definitely human but it was a human with severe deformities as a result of rickets or authritus or both.

Now anyone can see that these evolutionists were desperate to prove what they knew wasn't true. These have been proven frauds yet they are still in the textbooks and taught as valid scientific evidence, even after such information has been made public and even after the proclamation the frauds themselves made. Therefore, I am rather apauled at myself to be honest, that I once defended this, and said everyone else was in blind faith and that they just don't understand because of a "closed mind." This is also what I get now, its the circle of things for evolutionists. I get called a whole bunch of names by evolutionists now, most common of which "a close minded fool," and am suggested to "read a book."

This is just one reason why I have come to despise it. Students are allowed to be taught the work of frauds, and it has been considered logical and evidence. Every comment I hear an evolutionist make about a Christian or someone who doesn't believe in evolution, is hypocritical, or hypocritical and not even true of the other side, or the complete oposite.

Example: If you do not believe in evolution and have found evidence against all that supports it, you are a close minded fool who hasn't done any research, yet a kid who knows nothing about evolution can say the most foolish thing in defence of evolution, and what I hear and read is, "Obviously this kid has done his research and knows more than you." or, "You don't understand what evolution truely is."

"The Bible is full of flaws and Christianity is a blind faith." I remember when that was my favourite line. But the person who says this sentence doesn't realise it is the exact oposite. While evolution is based off a mythological origin and even Charles Darwin himself said it was just an idea, "But my ideas spread like wildfire. People made a religion out of them." This is what I meant in regards to unprejudiced research. Researching without saying to yourself, "Ok, I have to remember, God is a lie, the bible is wrong, evolution is a proven irrefutable theory based off evidence. Now I am ready." After they do research, "Evolution is correct. I tried my best to find God, and I didn't. So I have officialy proven evolution right and that God doesn't exist." Perhaps this isn't you, but it is all I see from evolutionists, and I am tired of calling myself something I'm not. A liar or a believer of the work of professing frauds. I have heard this before about the bible, even coming from me, but when you really search, and I mean really search, you will find that the bible is historically acurate and even used as a trusted source for scientists and anthropologists, secular ones at that, today. In fact, creationists invented much of the systems of scientists we use today, that even evolutionists use, the same evolutionists who say creationists aren't "real" scientists. There were things in the bible people thought were wrong, never existed or inaccurate, but year after year after year, more and more discoveries are found supporting the bible. The bible has been supported by scientific and historical facts for centuries, while evolution is the one based on blind faith.

"Evolutionists are getting more believers and more and more people are leaving Christianity." Actually, for the above stated hypocracy, it is the other way around. More people are leaving evolution because as science progresses and more discoveries are made, evolutionists are left circling again, which some are getting tired of doing, such as me. I am tired of running around this circle of denial that evolution provides. Maybe you don't see it this way. Perhaps you do, but you don't want to admit it to yourself, or do and do admit it to yourself.

There is one problem I think we as evolutionists, although today I am officially leaving evolutionism (to the typical evolutionist, I am "closing my mind" now) have, is that when we search we ask the same question, and make the same statement. "Why can't I find God?" and "I searched as hard as I could." The problem with this is, we are lying. Typically, the evolutionist "who is searching for God" doesn't find him, and I know why. We don't want to. Alot of us say we do, but usually the turth is we will make the claim but never honestly look. It's like when your mother tells you to clean your room and you shove everything in the closet or under the bed. Your mother comes in and sees that your room looks neat, but the truth is, you just shoved it all away in the closet, you didn't really clean your room nor try to do so. It may seem like a stupid example, but actually, it is quite similar to an evolutionists attitude when searching for God.

Anyways, I hope I wont come back to see the same old deal I get everywhere else. Hateful messages and book suggestions (which I have seen on this forum directed at christians so don't say it doesn't go on here). I hope that perhaps you would be inspired to search for yourself, but perhaps honestly seeking. Don't look to books of evolution to learn about creation, you wont find God there, nothing positive at least. Would you look in the bible for proof that it states evolution is correct? Probobly not. If you want to learn the subject, study the subject, if not, then don't say that you could not find the answer.

P.S To all christians here, I apreciate what you are doing and that you care. Faith, I don't mean to be stepping on your toes, and I would be the last one to to have the right to preach, but telling someone that you love them while pushing them on the path contradicts the very words, "I love you." But I do know you care, and apreciate what you christians are doing and have learned alot from you about God and the bible.

Last edited by Johnathan : 05-04-2007 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree with you on one aspect. It's like Doctors these days... you can't really trust the experts anymore. I mean even back in the day people worked at their own agenda but even these days no one will even concede when they are wrong. They would rather manipulate the information that simply refine or investigate the information they have at hand. One of the more sociopathic behaviors I find is that reality is perception. Wholly rediculous.

I would love to find some objective scientist or a doctor not out to fleece a person of every dollar they possess. I think finding a passion for knowledge in this world in search of the Truth about say... your topic... evolution... is far and few between. It's all about generating ones ego and money to continue on with well... their reputation and thats about it.

Welcome to the Forums Jonathan... good luck!
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Old 05-04-2007, 05:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Wow, this is surprising. 99.9% (you being the 0.1% lol) of evolutionists I have seen so far have called me a close minded fool who obviously hasn't done his research. I was the guy who did his research and knew alot more than those christians did, until I did actually do my research for real, and found evolution to be based off of way to much fraud-ed material; thats when I all of a sudden was a fool who didn't do his research...

It just bugs me so much knowing what I know now, hearing evolutionists still using theorys of evolution based on discoveries by men who admitted before they died that it was a fraud, and how they fraud-ed it. It is still in the textbooks and no one has made any atempt it seems, to take it out of there. That is what I meant by evolutionists being hypocritical when they say evolution is based on scientific facts and belief in the bible is a blind faith. How could any evolutionist say this while they have the theorys of proclaimed frauds being taught to students in school, making the students think everyone else is a blind fool who just has a closed mind to evolution, and believe me, I hear this form students alot, using frauds and declaring it scientific evidence.

And I have actually done research on alot of things in the bible, discovering scientific facts that have only been discovered to be true in this century, that the people back then should have known absolutely nothing about, and didn't have the technology to explore. I am not lying when I say that the scientific and historical claims of the bible have been proven accurate and true even so that secular scientists use it some times for scientific and historical purposes, to learn from it. I have actually started to put my trust in the bible, in more than scientific and historical subjects. When I look closely and with a truely open and unprejudiced mind, I realise christians aren't the close minded fools I once thought them to be.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I could not disagree with Johnathan's post more. I am with the 99.9% and I could not care less that I will be thrown into that category with some pejorative and patronizing gesture. I'm the most open-minded and logical person I know and I am an evolutionist. And no level of bombardment of fallacious arguments, manipulation and misinformation will change that. The post is too long for me pick at everything I disagree with so I will stop here and move along.
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Old 05-05-2007, 04:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Edit: Edited due to two evolutionists who are quick to accuse

Last edited by Johnathan : 05-05-2007 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 05-05-2007, 01:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am not surprised by it, but up until now I hadn't seen a Christian pose as an evolutionist questioning his beliefs. A cheap way to try and get people to question their beliefs.
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Old 05-05-2007, 02:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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HA yeah I know what you mean Armel P! Isn't that like what Satan is supposed to do... lying and deceiving?
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