I Was Asked, So Here You Go!

PsiCop · 04-13-2008, 06:34 PM

Upon signing up, I was asked to post an introduction, so I will. To preserve everyone's sanity, I'll keep it short.

I was raised Catholic, became a fundamentalist Christian in college, eventually fell out of that and, over time, became an Agnostic.

My degree is in medieval history, with a special study of the scholastics. Also the history of early Christianity has been a particular interest of mine, despite the fact that I'm no longer a "believer." In hindsight I attribute my current lack of belief in Christianity with my studies; reading the canonical and non-canonical early Christian texts in their original languages revealed aspects of Christianity which are not obvious in translation. Moreover, I found that the historical record has been trampled and undermined by subsequent Christianity, so that there are a great many things about early Christianity which we no longer have any chance to know with certainty.

All right, I promised to keep it short ... so that's it, for now!

duck · 04-13-2008, 07:06 PM

Welcome aboard.

AB517 · 04-13-2008, 07:19 PM

cool

I can't wait to be schooled.

welcome

GX · 04-13-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiCop

In hindsight I attribute my current lack of belief in Christianity with my studies; reading the canonical and non-canonical early Christian texts in their original languages revealed aspects of Christianity which are not obvious in translation. Moreover, I found that the historical record has been trampled and undermined by subsequent Christianity, so that there are a great many things about early Christianity which we no longer have any chance to know with certainty.

Sounds interesting! We'd love to hear what you have discovered about christianity via your studies that show it to be different than what the fundamentalists believe today. I kind of got my own idea but would love to hear what someone who has studied the historical record has to say. Do share! Welcome to the forum!

PsiCop · 04-14-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GX

Sounds interesting! We'd love to hear what you have discovered about christianity via your studies that show it to be different than what the fundamentalists believe today. I kind of got my own idea but would love to hear what someone who has studied the historical record has to say. Do share! Welcome to the forum!

In the interest of brevity (even though I actually hate just referring people to Web sites), I've set up a Web site of my own with some essays on the subject. I'm still working on it, and especially need to provide references and endnotes, but the crux of it is there ... the URL is http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/.

Having said that, I will sum up in as few words as possible my own insight into Christianity's origins, which differs from what most people believe (and which has driven many a fundie berserk): Christianity is actually the synthesis of a number of very small movements, and does not have a single origin.

That's right. The idea that Christianity began in Jerusalem (or Galilee), as the teachings of one person, and which radiated from that point, is simply not borne by the historical evidence. One page on my site is devoted to explaining this in greater detail, based solely on primary-source material: http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/frac.html.

This is not a mainstream view, not even by non-believing scholars, however, it remains the simplest explanation for the historical record we have; and simple explanations are usually the best. Some scholars have hinted at multiple origins for Christianity, but it's not a view that many are willing to express explicitly or plainly.

GX · 04-14-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiCop

Quote:

Originally Posted by GX

Sounds interesting! We'd love to hear what you have discovered about christianity via your studies that show it to be different than what the fundamentalists believe today. I kind of got my own idea but would love to hear what someone who has studied the historical record has to say. Do share! Welcome to the forum!

In the interest of brevity (even though I actually hate just referring people to Web sites), I've set up a Web site of my own with some essays on the subject. I'm still working on it, and especially need to provide references and endnotes, but the crux of it is there ... the URL is http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/.

Having said that, I will sum up in as few words as possible my own insight into Christianity's origins, which differs from what most people believe (and which has driven many a fundie berserk): Christianity is actually the synthesis of a number of very small movements, and does not have a single origin.

That's right. The idea that Christianity began in Jerusalem (or Galilee), as the teachings of one person, and which radiated from that point, is simply not borne by the historical evidence. One page on my site is devoted to explaining this in greater detail, based solely on primary-source material: http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/frac.html.

This is not a mainstream view, not even by non-believing scholars, however, it remains the simplest explanation for the historical record we have; and simple explanations are usually the best. Some scholars have hinted at multiple origins for Christianity, but it's not a view that many are willing to express explicitly or plainly.

Haven't had a chance to read it all, but you did a great job! Learned alot I didnt know! Thanks! Im sure you will make a great addition to the forum on these matters. There are some evangelical christians on the forum that I would absolutely LOVE to see you debate! I know I will have questions after reading it all. Probably by the weekend...

PsiCop · 04-14-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GX

There are some evangelical christians on the forum that I would absolutely LOVE to see you debate!

I don't mind, if they don't. I've dealt with their kind many times ... hell, I used to be one of them!

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not sure I even understand why they would want to be in a forum like this one. Yeah, I know they want to "save souls," but come on! One thing I do not do, is venture into their forums; long ago I ventured into some (such as the infamous, defunct "Christianity In General" forum on Delphi/About), after being invited in to discuss a topic, but decided it was not my job to invade their "turf" and take them on at full-bore. This leaves me at a loss to explain why they would do the same, here.

GX · 04-14-2008, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsiCop

Quote:

Originally Posted by GX

There are some evangelical christians on the forum that I would absolutely LOVE to see you debate!

I don't mind, if they don't. I've dealt with their kind many times ... hell, I used to be one of them!

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not sure I even understand why they would want to be in a forum like this one. Yeah, I know they want to "save souls," but come on! One thing I do not do, is venture into their forums; long ago I ventured into some (such as the infamous, defunct "Christianity In General" forum on Delphi/About), after being invited in to discuss a topic, but decided it was not my job to invade their "turf" and take them on at full-bore. This leaves me at a loss to explain why they would do the same, here.

See the following thread for your answer:

http://www.agnosticforums.com/genera...christian.html

Actually this guy seems kinda nice but he is a very strict fundamentalist evangelical who would welcome your questions, comments and debate. Go for it I say!

Now if you really want to have some fun go to this website:

www.brojed.org

This blog is a collection of a bunch of self righteous, know it all "open-air" preachers that call themselves "confrontational evangelists". They go to college campuses, gay pride parades, mardi gras, south beach miami, anti war rallies, mormon utah and even the popes visit to washington to stir things up by insulting everyone. They fancy themselves as biblical scholars and welcome debate about the bible and its origins and I would LOVE to see you tear them to pieces! Go for it!

PsiCop · 04-14-2008, 09:31 PM

OK, I just posed "the Riddle of Epicurus" to him. Hopefully he'll come up with something better than the (fallacious) "Free Will" theodicy, or the "it's a mystery" objection.

As for the confrontational types, there is no way to engage in meaningful discussion with such people. The only logical response to them is something along the lines of, "You want me to believe XXX? OK, go ahead ... MAKE ME believe it. I dare you." (In other words, simply be defiant in return.)

Astreja · 04-15-2008, 01:55 AM

Welcome, PsiCop! (offers plate of cookies and mug of mead)