spiritualquest

Hello group,
I am a 43 year old woman in east Tx. I have done alot of soul searching trying to figure out my beliefs. I will put it in a nutshell the best I can. Please help me with this if you can. I want to know if I am wierd or if others are like me.

Ok... I traditionally am Christian based but have questioned it alot lately. I dont know if I am agnostic or what. I do believe there is an afterlife. I do believe there is the existence of forces of good and evil. I believe that the bible has alot of contradiction and don't understand how this book which was written by human beings and translated from other languages can be completely accurate. I do believe that some spirits linger earthbound for some reason. I do believe that somehow people pay in the long run somewhere for their wrong doings and evilness. I think it comes back on you in terms of misfortune sometimes. I do not believe that any man on the face of this earth has the right or the knowledge to tell me who god is, what he wants me to do, how he wants me to live and that I will go to hell if I do not comply. I do not understand a god that punishes people for not believing the christian way especially if they were raised from childhood with different beliefs. And I don't understand a god that forces us to love him out of fear. I am fed up with judgement which is freely given out by "christians". They seem to believe they have the right to foresee or send you to hell. They are convinced they have ALL the answers and even fight amongst themselves because of different denominations.
Beyond the facts I believe in forces of good and evil and an afterlife of some sort, I do not know what else I do believe. Part of me has the fear that god will strike me into hell for having thoughts about this and thinking on my own.

Please write me... anyone.. at ladybug75901@yahoo.com

Thanks for listening,
spiritual quest

romansh

Hi spiritual

I think you are on the right path questioning things.
I don't believe we'll ever will come to a true answer, but I think we can come to answers that will work for us as individuals.

I don't think you are weird, though you do seem unsure .... which is OK.

My suggestion would be to look at the posts and if you see any posts that seem relevant ask questions and see what rings true for you.

all the best

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

spiritualquest

Thanks for responding to me. I so much appreciate it. I feel I have found a place where I can learn from others thoughts and beliefs and have an open mind and not judge or be judged. Thanks from the bottom of my heart. I never would have admitted to myself that I even had questions such as these because I was afraid to have questions. Afterall, christianity teaches that asking questions is a sin because you should have "faith".
Thanks again. Will post more later. Have to work today.
I look forward to getting to know some of you.
Debra

Skepticologist

As a fellow Texan, and a former Christian, I'm going to be perhaps brutally honest with you.

Where did these beliefs come from, if not from your Christian upbringing? What evidence do you have for your beliefs in an afterlife (does it have pearly gates and streets paved with gold?), or in forces of good and evil (does evil have horns and a pointed tail?)?

That's a really great start. You've come to question your traditional beliefs, at least those you find inconvenient, because they don't make sense to you. Now it's time to question your traditional beliefs that are convenient and comfortable.

And you believe this because . . . you've come into contact with an earthbound spirit, or know someone you trust who claims to have had such a contact? What's the last movie you saw?

My personal experience has led me to a somewhat different view of the wages of good and evil. Seems to me that a lot of folks I consider evil are still doing pretty well, at least in a temporal, materialistic sense. Sure, I'd like to believe they're going to be cast into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone eternally, but then I'd have to believe that good guys like me will look down on them from our mansions in the city four-square. Neither makes much sense to me.

You're absolutely right. Such a relgion is impossible to accept because of its contradictions, primary among which is its depiction of a loving God who wants all of his children to live with him in eternal heavenly bliss but who has pre-ordained the majority of them to burn in hell (read Matthew 7:13-14).

I similarly believe in forces of good and evil, but only within the context of natural human tendencies, i.e. might makes right and the rich get richer. I refuse to believe that there's any such thing as inherent evil, i.e. original sin. I believe all humans are born completely innocent, blank slates, and that some will be born into situations where people who don't care about other people will write on their slates, while others who are born into different situations will have people who do care about other people writing on theirs. But at some point, likely in early adulthood, and regardless of who's been writing on their slates, people are capable of looking around and developing their own concept of good an evil and truth, and they therefore become responsible for their own actions.

I think you've made a good start, and I applaud your courage in stepping out on what your religion has characterized as forbidden ground, i.e. questioning your beliefs. You've chosen to take that step, and I hope that I and other contributors can help you to find your way from here.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

JoeCamaro

I dont think you will find an answer here spiritual. What you will find here are points of view, opinions. You have to read, ask and look for information and then get to your own conclusions.
None of us is sure about if god exists or not, thats why we are agnostics. Even atheists cant be sure if there is or is not a god, but they, us, refuse to believe because different things, science, bible contradictions, and other things.
Look inside yourself, dont feel guilty, feel free. Think what bothers you and look for info.
If you end up believing something exactly as any member here told you, or just because you read it somewhere, it would be the same as following a religious leader. You cant let anyone tell you what to believe or what to thing. Again, the most important thing is to get to your OWN CONCLUSIONS and feel confortable with what you have chosen to believe and think.

This place is great to get information, analyze different points of views, understand things that otherwise would be out of your understanding and to ask, share and discuss things freely. Just be yourself and talk out all those things that are killing you on the inside, it will make you feel better. No one here will judge you, remember we are all in the same boat.

Good Luck

Joe

__________________
Evolution/Agnostic decals here

spiritualquest

Thanks for the responses from you and everyone who responded. I appreciate it truly. I guess I don't know what the heck I am anymore. I don't know that I have agnostic views or maybe just my own views that are not fully shared by anyone else.... (which is fine too)... LOL. I am just trying so hard to make sense of this life.

By the way, I am also a Texan... I live not far from you. I am in Lufkin Tx.

Ok.... I don't know why exactly I believe in good and evil forces, but I would suspect that it does come from personal experience. Too much to go into right now. But I have had experieces with what I consider to be hauntings. (long ago). I know I believe that we have a spirit of some sort and I do believe for some reason that this life is not the be all to end all of our existence. Is it for my own comfort that I believe this way??? maybe, but I don't think so. It is a gut feeling that I know something is out there in another realm and we will get there someday when this body dies. I might add, I am a registered nurse. I have been a hospice nurse before also. I have seen some peaceful deaths and some that were not peaceful and were horrible passings. I have seen the look in the eyes of many many people when they were dying. I have seen the look of horror on the faces of some in the last minutes of life. Yet, most of those I have seen had a look of peace on their faces.

Ok, and emotions? I don't believe emotion comes from the human body. I believe it affects the human body. But we do not will ourselves to love, hate, become angry, to be depressed, or to be joyful and happy. (at least I cannot will these things within myself).

And no, I don't want to find out what other members here believe so I can take on their beliefs... just as someone replied here... if I did that then it would be the same thing as accepting christianity just because others believe that way. However, I welcome you sharing with me.

I also do not discount completely the theory or reincarnation.

I also respect the beliefs or lack of belief of others. I do not think everyone else is wrong because I think differently.

Thanks for listening,
Debra (East Tx)

Skepticologist

That puts you way ahead of a lot of other people who refuse to consider any possibilities beyond their own reality. I think you've made a good start on your quest for understanding the meaning of life.

My challenge to you is this: Before considering any more possibilities (e.g., reincarnation), decide on what methodology you'll employ to vet them. If you decide on employing an intuitive standard (i.e., "it feels right to me"), that's completely cool. If, on the other hand, you impose a higher standard (i.e., logic and reason) before accepting anything you encounter as a belief, that's, in my humble opinion, even a bit cooler.

My point is that without a consistent standard that you can apply to any potential beliefs, you'll continue to be all over the board and won't move very far beyond the confusion you feel and that you express in your post.

I'm not in any way saying that the only acceptable standard is the one I've chosen, i.e., logic and reason. You have to adopt a standard that's most comfortable for you, but please adopt one standard or another.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

spiritualquest

I appreciate that response. I guess I just am trying to figure where to begin. I have had these same feelings and beliefs inside myself for years. I just was afraid to admit them if they in any way went against christian teaching.
I suppose logic is a good way to start..... I have already used that somewhat in the fact that I am questioning christianity. I do know that I don't go to church and do not desire to go because I have never been comfortable in a church. The few times I have gone, I felt as if they wanted me to try to be something I am not. I can't do that. I am pretty much face value and I am not going to pretend to be something I am not in any aspect of life.
I will say that I don't have to see something concrete in order to have beliefs about it or believe it exists.
I also want to correct somethng I said earlier in another post. I do not believe that everyone who has misfortunes in life are "paying" for something wrong. I also see that people who are not very nice sometimes have a life that is filled with privilege and happiness. Others, as myself, have always been a good loving caring person, and I have been dealt alot of crap. (not all caused by my own choices). I just believe that somehow we will pay if we are evil creatures that go through life intentionally hurting others.

Well, I will read some more here at the site. Not to learn anything but to open my mind to possibilities. Afterall, I have to learn on my own in my spiritual quest.

Religion does not offend me, lack of it does not offend me. I believe in live and let live and be and let be. If you believe in one almighty supreme being, I don't care.... as long as it is not pushed on me and I am not told that I deserve to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.

Debra

Skepticologist

Hey, Deb. If everyone lived according to that same proposition, there'd be a lot less crime and virtually no wars. I continue to applaud your authenticity and your commitment to search for truth. At the same time, I continue to challenge you to adopt a standard for accepting anything into your belief set. At this point, I think you're on the cusp of demanding that whatever you believe stand the test of reason and logic, and I encourage you to adopt it as your standard. That means that whatever beliefs you've accepted up to this point in time must be subjected to the test of reason and logic, and must be accepted or rejected accordingly.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

spiritualquest

Thanks again. Yep, I guess I need to find some method of my reasoning and thinking. I wish I had time to do alot of reading on different points of view and try to decide on some method of logic. However, I am pretty busy with living life and working and raising kids. I also have a chronic illness. (which they say won't kill me. So that is good). For now, I will continue to think and read when I can.

One thing I am sure of is that religion causes wars, death, hatred and judgment. So I can reason that if there is a God, then surely he would not want his name or his power used in such ways. This is the very reason I have come to question everything lately.

Debra