Skepticologist

Make a religion out of agnosticism? I can't think of any life view less amenable to being made into a religion than agnosticism. Religions, by definition, involve some degree of mysticism and faith in things that can't be observed. Agnosticism demands observable, verifiable evidence before admitting anything into its belief set.

I suppose you could posit that agnostics are "religious" about their insistence on verification of their beliefs, but that's as close as I think you'll realistically come to making a religion of the agnostic life view.

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"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

xxkayxx

Thanks for the heads up I'll have to remember that the next time i get lost in my thoughts...

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

Vinterland

Excerpt:
It's absolutely clear that you've been the farthest thing from an agnostic perhaps until recently. Not only is your definition of agnostic unhistorical, but your definition atheism is irrational and unfounded. That attitude you illustrate of "you're wrong, and I'm right" is sadly ironic.

If you've still got an ounce of "agnostic" in you, by answering this question you'll tell me the answer: Do you still believe Christianity is a myth?

Your agnostic friend,

Vinterland

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Vinterland

At what period in time? In the era when Muhammed was writing the Qu'Ran, he would read passages to believers and unbelievers numbering from several people at mass to hundreds in a crowd. He undoubtedly told them every word as literal. Do you think it would be any different a few hundred years before when the Bible emerged?

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

john76

It's hard to say.

Some scholars think that Jesus never existed and is just a compilation of earlier mythic figures. Others say that he did exist, but the stories we have about him are a compilation of historical memory mixed with other previous mythic ideas. Still others say he lived and everything said about him is true.

I personally feel that prof. Robert M. Price is right in saying that there are too many similarities between the Christian narrative and earlier mythic narratives to think that the Christian stories are 'only' historical memory. Tom Harpur has recently provided even more evidence about the relationship between Christ and the Egyptian god Horus. This can be seen on either of their websites, or in their published works.

Any particular hermeneutic has to be taken as provisional, but I feel that there is little reason to believe that the major premises about a historical Jesus have any basis in reality. To me, it was probably just a lie that a minor cult thought up and promoted for political reasons after they read Euripides' "Bacchae" and other older pagan and Hebrew texts.

On the other hand, I don't think there is any way to prove the case, one way or another. For me, agnosticism comes in as a restraint from becoming a zealot, even though it really seems to you that your point of view is likely to be the case. That's what I meant when I said in one of the postings that you could just as easily adopt a supernatural understanding to an event as you could a natural one. That doesn't mean I do (I'm a practical atheist, while being a logical agnostic - although you could just as easily posit a god without thinking it interferes in any way in natural events) Take care; John

romansh

Hi V
Christianity is obviously not a myth ... I pass several religious institutions of differing flavours when I go to work. Unless they are tricking me, Christianity is alive and well.

Now, if you meant was there literally a Jesus figure, now that is a different question.

Now let me ask you a question, do you believe Jesus turned water into wine, walked on water and fed a multitude with a couple of fish and a few loaves. I don't. As an agnostic what is your answer?

I see in the Bible a rich insight into life and its attributes. But only if I had the skill to interpret it.

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Herra1

I think we need to define what we mean with this Jesus thing.

A) there, in Israel,2000 years ago lived Jesus. The Son of God who was God but he came down here to earth to redeem us from our sins by dying in a cross.

B) there, in Israel lived a man/charlatan/magician/religious teacher who said SOME nice things, but that He being God ?

C) Jesus never existed. Jesus is the lone hero, of some tall tales told by sheep sheperds to amuse themselves, during the evening.


For me, its along the lines of b, maybe.

john76

For me, I'd say it doesn't matter. I've never found a Christian that cares about the other possibilities.

Herra1

Of course you dont.

But, when You are saying, that it dont matter to You.
Then, You, are lying.

Skepticologist

Then I guess I'll join John 76 in his "lie" by saying that it doesn't matter to me, either. From my agnostic point of view, why should any mythology matter? There is no substantive evidence, other than the numerous claims of their adherents, to support the beliefs of Christians or Muslims or any other organized religion.

That leaves me in what you likely consider as the deplorable condition of not believing in any of the accepted mythologies. But I've been there, done that. And I can tell you assuredly that I'm much more at peace with simply not knowing than trying to force fit my existence into any contrived set of beliefs, regardless of how many others claim to have done so.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow