Agnostic Theist?? Me??

nakamichi680zx · 02-25-2008, 11:01 AM

Hello all! I'm not sure if I fit into the strict definition of Huxly's agnotistic but because I've no proof about my views of a God or not, I this is the spot.

Looking forward to the discussions here.

About me: mostly faded Christian. Into metaphysics (former Wayne Dyer reader/listener). Started my slide/shift with (of all things) Conversations with God by Neal Donald Walsh.

Biggest change came with "The Davinci Code" and its line: "The Bible did not arrive by fax from God." and then Bart Ehrman's Truth and Fiction Behind the Davinci Code. He also did, Misquoting Jesus, which really put the slam on the Bible as the word of God.

Then came the mother/father of all Atheists, Richard Dawkins, who spoke so much common sense that my view of God, is so far reduced from what it was that I no longer have a sense of any caring or concern of this God.

Where I stand today: I believe (but do no not truly know) that there is a creative source but that it is now relegated to starting a chain reaction of events which it has no power or concern to intervene and change.

It's like starting a ripple and then letting that ripple go and whatever happens, happens. It is the only way for me to frame the idea of the tremendous suffering that continues in this world. There is no All Powerful and All Loving God who would let suffering happen and to let evil flourish the way it does.

And to say "oh it's beyond our understanding" is just too frelling convenient.

I could go on but now you see where I am at on my path.

GX · 02-25-2008, 11:05 PM

Hello Nakamichi,

Quote:

Started my slide/shift with (of all things) Conversations with God by Neal Donald Walsh...Then came the mother/father of all Atheists, Richard Dawkins, who spoke so much common sense that my view of God, is so far reduced from what it was that I no longer have a sense of any caring or concern of this God.

Im familiar with both books. In CWG, Walsch claims that the God of the universe is not that dysfunctional one that the religions claims him/her/it to be. All Richard Dawkins book does is basically say how the God of religions is a dysfunctional God which is common sense (and which is also what Walsch's book says but it offers a more enlightened view of God). How did Dawkins specifically persuade you over Walsch?

romansh · 02-25-2008, 11:44 PM

Welcome Nakamichi

Enjoy the ripples and the interference patterns from the other ripples.
all the best

nakamichi680zx · 02-25-2008, 11:45 PM

CWG was the first clue that I had that what men write changes the nature of the message. Now many who quoted the Bible are starting to quote the Course in Miracles as somehow "authoritative" of what Jesus 'said'. How long does it take for a book like CWG to become quotable; accepted as an authoritative as the Word of God? Who canonizes these books? Men do. This just sounded illogical and bent to me.

An interview that Richard Dawkins had on NPR Science Friday brought up some points about God's non-trivial "errors" in creating the earth and other matters (which I need a refresher on), but I found his logic and reason so clear that I found it hard to deny that he'd struck a chord somewhere within me. Now: I must say that I have not (yet) researched Dawkins as much as I'd like to and I probably have not bought into the full-blown arguments of atheists--more as that progresses. It was just another few logical statements which continued to move me to where I am today.

For the God of my youth to be fallible & prone to errors was not something that I had considered before Dawkins. Although the book "When Bad Things Happened to Good People" radically reduced the "power" of the God I once thought I knew and started me thinking how much less of a power than I ever knew.

And Bart Ehrman's recent book "God's Problem" further sealed this view with the problem of human suffering not being addressed (much if at all) by God.

GX · 02-26-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

How long does it take for a book like CWG to become quotable; accepted as an authoritative as the Word of God? Who canonizes these books? Men do. This just sounded illogical and bent to me.

This is true however CWG makes a point several times that it should not be looked at as the "authoritative word of God" and that men should seek the truth in their own hearts which sounds like what you are doing. Happy searching!

AB517 · 02-26-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nakamichi680zx

Hello all! I'm not sure if I fit into the strict definition of Huxly's agnotistic but because I've no proof about my views of a God or not, I this is the spot.

Looking forward to the discussions here.

About me: mostly faded Christian. Into metaphysics (former Wayne Dyer reader/listener). Started my slide/shift with (of all things) Conversations with God by Neal Donald Walsh.

Biggest change came with "The Davinci Code" and its line: "The Bible did not arrive by fax from God." and then Bart Ehrman's Truth and Fiction Behind the Davinci Code. He also did, Misquoting Jesus, which really put the slam on the Bible as the word of God.

Then came the mother/father of all Atheists, Richard Dawkins, who spoke so much common sense that my view of God, is so far reduced from what it was that I no longer have a sense of any caring or concern of this God.

Where I stand today: I believe (but do no not truly know) that there is a creative source but that it is now relegated to starting a chain reaction of events which it has no power or concern to intervene and change.

It's like starting a ripple and then letting that ripple go and whatever happens, happens. It is the only way for me to frame the idea of the tremendous suffering that continues in this world. There is no All Powerful and All Loving God who would let suffering happen and to let evil flourish the way it does.

And to say "oh it's beyond our understanding" is just too frelling convenient.

I could go on but now you see where I am at on my path.

Without the choice to take the wrong path, there is one path.
A tree is just a tree. A loin will act like a lion.
We let evil flourish, not God.
He gave us every tool we need to stop it.

**Skepticologist** · 02-26-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Without the choice to take the wrong path, there is one path.
A tree is just a tree. A loin will act like a lion.
We let evil flourish, not God.
He gave us every tool we need to stop it.

I've suspected all along you were just another bible-thumper, and you've just proved me right . . . I think. A loin will act like a lion??? Not my loin; not at my age!

AB517 · 02-26-2008, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Without the choice to take the wrong path, there is one path.
A tree is just a tree. A loin will act like a lion.
We let evil flourish, not God.
He gave us every tool we need to stop it.

I've suspected all along you were just another bible-thumper, and you've just proved me right . . . I think. A loin will act like a lion??? Not my loin; not at my age!

lol

Ok skept.

Try and think of my beliefs like this skept.

I will use the beach; I hope you have been there.
Try and picture sitting on the beach. North East coast for me.
The sounds of children, people, birds, waves, wind, and boats. Do not forget the occasional whistle. The sights; look around and picture what you see. If it is like my beach, we’ll have to squint. Feel the dried salt water on your skin, the half wet bathing suite, grit in your hair, ears, teeth, and of course the crotch. Feel the wind blown sand. The sun, feel the sun skept.

That would be a description of my higher power.
I am not a writer so that will have to do.

Now; pick up a handful of sand.
Brush it all of until you have a few specs of sand stuck to your hand.
Look at one grain of sand. We need our glasses now.

It holds more than all the religions of the world.

romansh · 02-26-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Try and think of my beliefs like this skept.

I will use the beach; I hope you have been there.
Try and picture sitting on the beach. North East coast for me.
The sounds of children, people, birds, waves, wind, and boats. Do not forget the occasional whistle. The sights; look around and picture what you see. If it is like my beach, we’ll have to squint. Feel the dried salt water on your skin, the half wet bathing suite, grit in your hair, ears, teeth, and of course the crotch. Feel the wind blown sand. The sun, feel the sun skept.

That would be a description of my higher power.
I am not a writer so that will have to do.

Now; pick up a handful of sand.
Brush it all of until you have a few specs of sand stuck to your hand.
Look at one grain of sand. We need our glasses now.

It holds more than all the religions of the world.

nice

nakamichi680zx · 02-27-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Without the choice to take the wrong path, there is one path.
A tree is just a tree. A loin will act like a lion.
We let evil flourish, not God.
He gave us every tool we need to stop it.

I've suspected all along you were just another bible-thumper, and you've just proved me right . . . I think. A loin will act like a lion??? Not my loin; not at my age!

lol

Ok skept.

Try and think of my beliefs like this skept.

I will use the beach; I hope you have been there.
Try and picture sitting on the beach. North East coast for me.
The sounds of children, people, birds, waves, wind, and boats. Do not forget the occasional whistle. The sights; look around and picture what you see. If it is like my beach, we’ll have to squint. Feel the dried salt water on your skin, the half wet bathing suite, grit in your hair, ears, teeth, and of course the crotch. Feel the wind blown sand. The sun, feel the sun skept.

That would be a description of my higher power.
I am not a writer so that will have to do.

Now; pick up a handful of sand.
Brush it all of until you have a few specs of sand stuck to your hand.
Look at one grain of sand. We need our glasses now.

It holds more than all the religions of the world.

I'm sorry: I got stuck after I imagined sand in my crotch. How irritating is that?

Seriously: nice imagery.

But I'm stuck at whether your choice to go left or right in a path before you is in fact your choice. Or are the choices you make simply opening up a new set of possibilities? And is it random chance that makes up these possibilities such that all outcomes from a single choice are the same every time?

If you have no preferences, then there is no becoming attached to your expected outcomes as a result of that choice; you have no expectations.