GX

Hello All,
I became aware of this forum after posting on shadowdemocracy.org and find it quite an interesting read. I read what an agnostic is in your faq but am now thoroughly confused after reading the beliefs of some agnostics here. Specifically that of MJ "Revolting Pawn". His beliefs sound somewhat like mine but I never considered myself an agnostic. I personally consider myself spiritual but not religious. I would like to list off my beliefs and get some clarifications from you folks if you dont mind...

1) I dont believe in the dysfunctional, neurotic, vengeful theistic God of religions but I do believe in a God/Being/Universe or whatever you want to call it of perfect love that has consciousness and intelligence. I believe that this being is everywhere and everything in the physical and spiritual universe and more. I also believe that everything and everyone in the universe is a part of God like waves are a part of the ocean and that we are all connected and one yet an individuation of the whole. This God has no needs or requirements and does not even require one to believe in him/her. I also believe that life is meaningless and that God created us and gave us creative power to create our own meaning.

2) I dont believe that a devil/satan as described by the major religions exists or in the concept of hell and everlasting punishment.

3) I do believe in an afterlife and reincarnation. I do not believe that you immediately reincarnate after physical death but that you may do so after spending some time up there and most of our species chooses to do so for the sake of personal evolution.

4) I believe that Jesus existed and did all of those great things but I feel that organized religion intentionally distorted his message and even intentionally left alot of things out. Whether he was a direct individuation of God, or a individuation of God as we all are, Im not sure. Which leads me to my final belief....

5) I dont have all of the answers and do not wish to proselytize my views, but wish to encourage discussion and dialogue on these important questions so that all points of view are expressed and that we may all evolve as sentient beings. Specifically, I believe that mine is not a better way or the only way but merely another way to the ultimate truth. I believe that every belief and path (even atheism) is a stepping stone that will eventually lead one to the ultimate truth i.e. there are many paths to the top of the mountain. If not in this lifetime, maybe the next.

I apologize in advance if this post is too long and drawn out for an intial hello. Do others share these beliefs and consider themselves agnostic? Is it simply a question of disavowing religious in favor of the spiritual? Thanks in advance for all of your input!

GX

AB517

Hi

wow right to the point.

I think the same way as you for the most part.
I am Roman Catholic.

Hi welcome

Skepticologist

[quote=GX;24174]1) I became aware of this forum after posting on shadowdemocracy.org and find it quite an interesting read. I read what an agnostic is in your faq but am now thoroughly confused after reading the beliefs of some agnostics here. Specifically that of MJ "Revolting Pawn". His beliefs sound somewhat like mine but I never considered myself an agnostic. I personally consider myself spiritual but not religious. I would like to list off my beliefs and get some clarifications from you folks if you dont mind...

I guess that is a pretty long first post, but not as long as some I've seen. I'll respond to your premises point-by-point and then leave it for others to do likewise.

I can relate to your disbeliefs because I experienced the same logical disconnects you did with regard to the "God of religions". What's not as clear to me is the basis of your belief in "a God/Being/Universe". If you reject "the God of religions" on a logical basis, what logically leads you to believe in any form of supreme being?

Nor do I. It's as illogical as a belief in a supreme being.

On what logical basis?

I'm not even all that sure he ever existed at all. If he did, it almost certainly wasn't as an incarnation of a supreme being.


You're likely a lot younger than I am. Having lived for 60 years, many of which were spent in an effort to ferret out "the ultimate truth". And I've become convinced I'll never discover it.

Once you reject conventional, e.g. religious, views of truth because they make no sense to you, such rejection pre-supposes that any beliefs you subsequently align yourself with will be based on your best attempt to apply logic and reason. Consequently, I'm intrigued at your rejection of "the dysfunctional, neurotic, vengeful theistic God of religions" and your acceptance of "a God/Being/Universe or whatever you want to call it of perfect love that has consciousness and intelligence" without citing any apparent evidence.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

AB517

[quote=Skepticologist;24180]
question skept

Why does religion have to own God? Why can't you reject a religion and still believe in God?

Many have presented evidence logically. Weather you agree with it is another story. All to often the “rational” statement means “you must agree with me or your irrational” to people.

GX

Thanks for replies and the welcomes AB and Skeptic!

Skeptic brings up some very valid discussion points which I will briefly touch upon here and leads me to a suggestion for a new thread which I will post in the appropriate forum.

I was brought up as an Easter Orthodox Christian and didnt learn too much about God because all of those services were 1 hour and 1/2 of mystical chants and singing in an old slavic dialect that my parents who were born there could barely understand let alone me (it is kind of cool actually, the orthodox stress a mystical union with God over preaching a bunch of rules). That was OK because I grew up and formulated my own healthy ideas about God. Later on I made the mistake of listening to and believing the Protestant Fire and Brimstone & Catholic bullshit. I then questioned that crap and thought they were completely full of **** and God cant be like that and refused to throw out the baby (God) with the bathwater as some have done. I then started doing research to find the truth about this.

To make a long story short, my journey led me to near death experience research, reincarnation research and astral projection research which has convinced me of those beliefs that I have listed in my introductory greeting.
Afterwards, I read the "conversations with God" series of books that really resonated with my core being and thinking about what God is really like and thats where Im at now.

This leads me to my suggestion for a thread which I will post in the appropriate forum and am quite surprised that a site like this doesnt have. Specifically, a thread where various scientific research regarding reincarnation, afterlife, consciousness, ghosts etc. can be discussed, validated or debunked.

GX

Pantheist

Hello, everyone, this is my first post. I am an independent Pantheist. I have beliefs and tenets that are basically relevant only to me. I believe in freedom of religion, except for religions that harm animals or people. Especially animals. I believe there are no gods or God, no soul, and no afterlife. I believe there is a supernatural side to humans that has its roots in the subconscious. Mother Nature rules all. She doesn't think, she just acts. She can be the source of pleasure and peace or the cause of pain and misery. Science can modify her, but only a little. She will eventually kill you, there are no negotiations. It is up to each of us to reach the highest quality of this life that Mother Nature has given us.

GX

Welcome Pantheist!
There are a variety of beliefs represented here and you will find this a pleasant place to hang out. I dont mind you piggybacking on my introductory thread, but if wish to get more visibility and responses to your introduction you may wish to start your own "greeting" thread. People may overlook it and think yours is a response to my introduction. Im sure the webmaster wont mind if you repost.

GX

Skepticologist

I think most religions have essentially lost touch with the concepts of god they were originally based on. They've become "politically correct" institutions devoted to advancing societal ideas that support whatever agendas they espouse.

Consequently, I reject them.

But even if one or more of them were true to a pure concept of god, I'd still reject them because (remember, I'm an agnostic), I've discovered no substantive evidence supporting the existence of a supreme being. And the fact that I've also discovered no substantive evidence refuting the existence of a supreme being doesn't make me any more predisposed to believe in one.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

Pantheist

Thanks for the welcome, GX. I didn't mean to trespass, I'm just a bit confused about posting, starting new threads, and just about everything else involved in a forum. You've probably guessed that this is all new to me. I'll eventually catch on. Thanks again.

Pantheist