Telimaktar

If this is true then why doesn't everyone believe in God? What proof do you have "beyond the shadow of doubt in all people" that he in fact exists? Unless I misunderstood your meaning here.

Skepticologist

With all due respect, I submit that you're getting the proverbial horse before the proverbial cart, which is actually a pretty common dilemma for believers.

Speaking only for myself, I spent the first 2/3 of my life believing, or trying to believe, there was a god (according to your definition). However, when I finally began to question my christian beliefs, I discovered many discrepancies between the qualities attributed to god in the scriptures and his purported actual behavior as conveyed by the same scriptures.

When I finally rejected christianity because it simply no longer made sense to me, I wasn't rejecting the possibility of a supreme being; I was rejecting the possibilty of a supreme being as depicted in christian scripture. In a nutshell, I could never square the concept of a loving god who wants all the people whom he created to be saved with the concept that he created them with the overwhelming propensity to disobey and displease him. I can only assume that what you refer to as "free will" was being taken into account by Matthew when he wrote in Matthew 7:13-14 that very few of the people god ostensibly created would inherit eternal life (with those who don't spending eternity in perpetual torment).

Now, as an agnostic, I don't believe that god is evil. After all, I'm not even sure a supreme being exists.

You seem to assume that those of us who were once religious continue to be bound by the christian definition of god, and that's simply not the case.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

Astral

I am not sure I follow... you mentioned something about people being condemned and I took it to mean you think that is evil, even though you did not state that directly. Please correct me if I am assuming too much.

Do not discount our propensity for Evil to be of God's intention. This is our punishment for thinking we are so great and can do-it-ourselves.

Skepticologist

And where did your "propensity for Evil" come from, if not from God? Did it come from the evil serpent Satan? Then where did Satan come from? And who placed him in the garden of Eden to ensure that Adam and Eve would commit the eternal screw-up of eating a piece of good-looking fruit?

If you believe that god created you, then you necessarily have to believe that he created your moles, warts, bad breath and excess body fat as well as your more comely parts.

And if you're not perfect, never mind even good enough, to escape eternal damnation, then whose fault is that?

You've just been tagged in a never-ending game of divine gotcha.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow