AndyLES

Just found your site...

The Big Question of God's existence is one I've struggled with for a long time...even though I was raised Catholic (and still, to some small extent, practice), I've always had a lot of doubts - after all, you can't ignore science, right? If anything, I'd describe myself as an Agnostic who sides towards Deism.

I don't know if the "Introduction" forum is the right place for this, but I've a question: Is Agnosticism a "polite," for lack of a better word, term for Atheism?

I've scanned Al Gore's internet in search of the meaning of the former term, but what I often found are people who claim to be Agnostic (not knowing one way or the other) but then go on to make pronouncements of Atheism.

Also, in surveys Agnostics seem to always be lumped in to the "Other/Non-Religious/Atheist" column, which I find grossly misleading. And while I'm certainly not looking to start a fight with my first post , a quick glance at some of the post here seem to indicate that some are agnostics in name only.

In fact, a banner ad across the top of the site asks, "Agnostic? Maybe you're an Atheist who hasn't given it much thought."

So, (pardon this long winded rant) what precisely is the definition of agnosticism? Polite Atheism, or true "don't-know-one-way-or-the-other" uncertainty? I read the definition on this site, but it seems that the comments here indicate otherwise. Help me out!

pseudonous

Welcome to the forum.

My preferred definition of agnosticism comes from Thomas Huxley sense he coined the term. It goes like this:

"Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle....Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable...."

So, technically, agnostics are atheists in the sense that we do not believe in god. However, we choose to call ourselves agnostic because many people that call themselves atheist believe that god does not exist. In my experience, they will claim that atheism is just the absence of belief (which is agnosticism) and then turn around and claim it is reasonable to say god does not exist (which is not demonstrable).

To answer your question more directly, agnosticism is true "don't-know-one-way-or-the-other-and-neither-do-you" certainty.

AndyLES

Thanks for the rundown...but again, the first sentence of the paragraph above is what confuses me somewhat - If you don't believe, then aren't you just an atheist, end of discussion? Of course, given my bias towards deism/theism, I guess then one can just consider me deist/theist, end of discussion. ;-)

I was of the impression that Agnosticism was literally, 50/50, right down the middle of the road nuetral. Perhaps I'm getting too obsessed with semantics?
I don't necessarily an abscence of belief - if anything, my philosophy is more, "I THINK there's a God, based on what I've seen/read/observed in my practical experience, but I am not sure, and if he/she/it does exist, I highly doubt that he/she/it is some sort of Santa Clause/Superman type that grants wishes and passes judgements."

BTW, one final question - What's with all the Ninja smilies? I dig them, but they seem a tad out of place.

pseudonous

No, I'm not just an atheist, with emphasis on "just". Again, if we are talking about atheism as simply a lack of belief in god then there is more to agnosticism. For instance atheists who believe that there is no god are not agnostic. Like you say someone could just lump you in with all the other theists but this probably would not be very useful in describing your position. Agnosticism also deals with thinking in general and is not just a position concerning the existence of god.

Agnosticism is not a 50/50 position either. Agnostics believe that the probability that a god exists is unknown. 50/50 is not a default probability. I don't know of any logical arguments that would allow me to say anything about the probability.

As for your last question, ninja smiles, well I guess they are just cool. Especially if you catch someone of guard.

Anyway, enjoy the forum as you've already noticed we have a fairly diverse group.