Hi everyone - Page 4

**George** · 09-26-2007, 08:52 AM

I'd tend to disagree.

Being able to say maybe or maybe not requires far more open mindedness than to pick one side and defend it to the end.

Geshtinnanna · 09-26-2007, 12:17 PM

I have a strong belief in my Atheistic Satanism. It's strong enough for me to stand one deep with that belief and not be threatened by other belief systems people choose. I am not a woman of faith by any notion. But I do understand why people use it. And it's their right. People are in constant change as is their belief system.

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but due to my bitterness against faith, especially personal faith.

This is what I kind of thought was happening. And I commend you on being honest enough to see that in yourself. Bitterness tends to cause people to be hostile and it's not fair. But I do understand that bitterness. Usually that is from a lack in your own belief system that hurts you in some way. I honestly hope you find some peace so you can allow yourself to be ok with others and their form of peace.

pseudonous · 09-26-2007, 01:50 PM

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Yes, I have grown bitter due to what agnostics have become. They are not freethinkers like they once were. I have been an enemy of the state to challenge this.

Agnostics haven't become anything. Agnosticism is a method, the same as it always was, and as it always will be. The fact that a few theists want to misuse the word has no baring on agnosticism itself. You will find young and confused people wherever you go. If you allow them to determine the meaning of words then you will have no useful language left.

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Now it's your playground to shrug your shoulders and say "maybe" without being honest. It pains me to the point of bitterness to see honesty become sacrificed. It pains me to see agnosticism become twisted and convoluted.

Whenever I feel this way I like to watch planet of the apes (the original). My favorite quote is by Dr. Zaius, "Have you forgotten your scripture, the thirteenth scroll? 'And Proteus brought the upright beast into the garden and chained him to a tree and the children did make sport of him.'"

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I have nothing more positive to add, so I break. I will leave for awhile.

Take it easy.

romansh · 10-13-2007, 11:23 AM

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Originally Posted by Gaius

In short I guess I grew to have a hard time believing that the universe popped into existence one day out of nothing for no reason whatsoever and produced creatures like us who are capable of foresight involving reason and purpose.

Gaius
I too have a hard time believing that our universe popped in to existence from "the" singularity about 13 to 15 billion years ago.

What I have a harder time believing is that there was specifically a Christian god (or any other theistic god) hanging about "before" then and since then; before creating Earth about 5 billion years ago or 6000 years ago, depending on which version of Christianity you adopted? Are you OK with this belief?

I have some sympathy for the god belief, though I don't particularly agree with your end point. So my question is "how did you end up being a Christian, as opposed to some other theist or even a deist?"