The An-Jel

He sounds like Newton. Newton did, of course, amazing work that scientists still use today. Newton while his skills in Physics were second to none believed in alchemy and spent some of his time trying to turn lead into gold. Ramanujan believed a goddess put these concepts into his head. Newton kept his calculations private more often than not. A fine line between genius and insanity are you getting what I am saying here. It doesn't appear to be a superconsciousness but merely the eccentricities of the genius that seem to be rather common with these personality types.

Isaac Newton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If your interested.

Claiming a Goddess (obviously a product of culture) and trying to prove Alchemy (obviously a product of culture) Well you have to admire the genius of everything else and forgive a persons short comings.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

niranjan

Hi AnJel. Please read my initial posts again.
For example......

<<<<<The Yogi teaches that the mind itself has a higher state of existence, beyond reason, a superconscious state, and when the mind gets to that higher state,then this knowledge, beyond reasoning, comes to man . Metaphysical and transcendental knowledge comes to that man .This state of going beyond reason, transcending ordinary human nature, may sometimes come by chance to a man who does not understand its science; he , as it were, stumbles upon it. When he stumbles upon it, he generally interprets it as coming from outside. So this explains why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God. What does it mean? It means that the mind brought the knowledge by its own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted according to the belief and education of the person through whom it came. The real fact is that these various men, as it were, stumbled upon this superconscious state.>>>>>>>>


While Newton and Ramanujan were great scientists, I don't think they were insane. Alchemy was a prevalent belief at those times. If Newton engaged in it, I don't think it can be a sign of insanity. Maybe curiousity...

As for Ramanujan's belief that a goddess put it in his head, I am only saying that it was his own superconscious mind that created these concepts, and I believe , in Swami Vivekananda's words....

<<<<<So this explains why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God. What does it mean? It means that the mind brought the knowledge by its own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted according to the belief and education of the person through whom it came.>>>>>>

So in a way,you are correct in saying that Ramanujans cultural upbringing must have influenced his interpretation of the mathematical knowledge that he clearly received in the form of intuitions.

The An-Jel

I know exactly what your saying. I do read your posts. Believe me they are a passion of mine at this site now. I want to elevate you to rationality rather than superconsciousness. I don't know what your specialty is in life. Newton and Ramanujan have their beliefs and there is a certain corrolary between the two. It is suspected that Newton practised partial differential equations far before the "originators" came up with it. Newton was not an open man to say the most.

Superconsciousness= human intuition and genius. I think thats what your looking for... depends on what you want to do with it!

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Og

I think that mainly you don't understand how amazing of a tool mathematics, itself, is, and how brilliantly it expresses the world that we experience and couples our brains to this reality.

Not to belittle this math genius' ability. I'm just saying that mathematics is a language that is extremely intuitive in nature because it vocalizes what is real in a very logical (read: rational) manner.

I still say that terms like "supernatural" and "beyond reason" are gibberish statements and that the people delivering them don't have the first idea what it is that they are saying or even trying to say.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

niranjan

I think the term "supernatural" was used in the sense that this accessing of the superconscious mind by certain people was a rare phenomenon. You certainly don't find prophets here and there.They are just a microscopic minority compared to the vast majority of mankind.So, in a way, relatively speaking, it is supernatural.

However it should also be said that Swami Vivekananda earnestly wanted each and every human being to access this superconscious mind and profit from it , as can be understood from this quote of his...

<<These prophets were not unique; they were men as you or I. They were great Yogis. They had gained this superconsciousness, and you and I can get the same. They were not peculiar people. The very fact that one man ever reached that state proves that it is possible for every man to do so. Not only is it possible, but every man must, eventually, get to that state, and that is religion. >>


You can see from this that Vivekananda wanted this "supernatural " phenomenon to be just a natural phenomenon, and the birthright of every human being.


As for the "beyond reason" , I don't think Vivekananda is off the mark, if you consider the statements of spiritual and intellectual giants in a previous post of mine.

Heres one....


Intuition does not denote something contrary to reason, but something outside the province of reason.’
— Carl Gustav Jung

Og

Carl Jung spent his life analyzing an extremely complex system and how it expressed itself in the form of the human animal (i.e. the brain and psychiatry). I can understand why he felt that way. Doesn't mean he's correct.

"Beyond reason" is just a gibberish statement from people who have a complex system that they don't quite understand before them. Intuition is quite reasonable. It's based on previous experience and subconscious and conscious integration of memory and mental objects.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

niranjan

Hi Anjel . I must thank you for this statement of yours and I sincerely hope that you will profit to your hearts content from the knowledge in this thread.

You might have heard of the Zen concept of no-mind. This is a state of mind that comes when the mind is completely in the present moment.

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has stated "Living in the present moment is meditation."

Meditation helps one to access the superconscious mind . Hence it naturally follows that living in the present moment helps one to access the superconscious mind.


There are a few eastern martial arts, which is founded on this basis of Zen. The warrior , who is living in the present moment or a state of no-mind, accesses the superconscious mind, and clearly anticipates his adversary's moves in his mind, during combat, which gives him an edge over his adversary.

Heres a quote by an unknown samurai warrior...

I have no talent; I make Ready Wit my Talent.
I have no friends; I make my Mind my Friend.
I have no enemy; I make Incautiousness my Enemy.
I have no armour; I make Benevolence my Armour.
I have no castle; I make Immovable Mind my Castle.
I have no sword; I make No Mind my Sword.

Unknown 14th century samurai

The last passage, no mind is one of main precepts of Zen.



(This theme is also well illustrated in a western film called " The
Last Samurai " starring Tom Cruise)

I am stating this just for the sake of information.


I believe that no-mind or living in the present moment is the source of great creativity.

I clearly recollect reading a quote of Leonardo da Vinci, stating the importance of no-mind . I have tried to find it on the internet, but without success. I hope someone will put this quote of his in this thread.

As for your asking what the superconscious state of mind or what the intuitive state of mind at its peak can do, well....

I believe the world will be a better place to live in if there were more Ramanujans,Einsteins, Krishna's , Buddha's, Leonardo da Vinci's, Lao Tsu's, Jesus's, Gandhi's , Bahaullah's, and other great men, in every county.

The world could progress both materially and spirituallly at a very healthy pace.

Og

I think the use of the term anticipation is something that would cast the samurai out of the no-mind. No longer mediating and living in the now but anticipating the future.

I read some comments on Zen samurai where the master would frequently attack the student throughout months of training from different angles at different times using different methods. The point was for the samurai to not anticipate, but to be in the present moment at all times.

I appreciate your posts as well. Thank you for continuing to contribute. I know I have enjoyed your commentary. I do not like the use of terms like supernatural or "beyond reason" (as should be obvious from my many comments on it). My main issue with the use of the terms is that it seems to paint the states as irrational and not attainable by an intelligent and focused mind.

I like the images that many of the yogis use to describe enlightenment. The actions of the ego cause the waters of the conscious mind tremble and cause distortions and noise in the surface of the lake. The acts of the yogi settle the ripples of the pond until the surface reflects the heavens and is transparent into the depths.

Maybe my problems with the terms like supernatural and "beyond reason" are hold overs from my upbringing in western christian society.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

niranjan

Doesn't mean he's wrong as well.

niranjan

Here's an article by J.Donald Walters , a direct disciple of Paramahamsa Yogananda ( the author of 'The Autobiography of a Yogi' and founder of the Self-Realization Fellowship) , and a yogi himself.



The Three Levels of Consciousness
From Intuition for Starters by J. Donald Walters

The totality of our consciousness is comprised of three levels: the subconscious, the conscious, and the superconscious. These levels of consciousness represent differing degrees of intensity of awareness…

The first level, the subconscious, is relatively dim in awareness: it is the stuff of which dreams are made. We may think of it as the repository of all remembered experiences, impressions left on the mind by those experiences, and tendencies awakened or reinforced by those impressions. Every experience we've ever had, every thought, every impression of loss or gain, resides in the subconscious mind and determines our patterns of thought and behavior far more than we realize.

The subconscious, being unrestricted by the rigid demands of logic, permits a certain flow of ideas. This flow may border on intuition, but if the ideas are too circumscribed by subjectivity, they won't correspond with the external world around us. When we dream at night, we are mainly operating on the subconscious level...

The subconscious mind can all too easily intrude itself on our conscious awareness, tricking us into thinking we're getting intuitive guidance, when actually we're merely being influenced by past impressions and unfulfilled desires. The subconscious mind is in some ways close to the superconscious, where real intuition resides. Both represent a flow of awareness without logical obstructions. The subconscious is therefore more open to the intuitions of the superconscious, and sometimes receives them, though usually mixed with confusing imagery. To be really clear in the guidance we receive is difficult, but very important. Calamitous decisions have been make in the belief that one was drawing on higher guidance, when in fact one was responding only to subconscious preconditioning.

The next level of consciousness from which we receive guidance is the conscious state, the rational awareness that usually guides our daily decisions. When we receive input from the senses, analyze the facts, and makes decisions based on this information, we are using this conscious level of guidance. This process is also strongly affected by the opinions of others, which can cloud our ability to draw true guidance.

Dividing and separating the world into either/or categories, the conscious level of awareness is problem-oriented. It's difficult to be completely certain of decisions drawn from this level, because the analytical mind can see all the possible solutions. But ultimately it doesn't have the ability to distinguish which one is best. If we rely exclusively on the conscious mind, we may find ourselves lacking in certainty and slipping into a state of perpetual indecision…

Intuition and heightened mental clarity flow from superconscious awareness. The conscious mind is limited by its analytical nature, and therefore sees all things as separate and distinct. We may be puzzled by a certain situation, but because it seems unrelated to other events, it's difficult to draw a clear course of action. By contrast, because the superconscious mind is unitive and sees all things as part of a whole, it can readily draw solutions. In superconsciousness the problem and the solution are seen as one, as though the solution was a natural outgrowth from the problem.