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09-25-2007, 11:53 AM
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#31 (permalink)
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I think it was W C Fields that says he likes kids .... with a little salt and pepper and a side of ketchup to dunk 'em in ......
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"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."
"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....." | 
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09-25-2007, 11:59 AM
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#32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debdodd  I think it was W C Fields that says he likes kids .... with a little salt and pepper and a side of ketchup to dunk 'em in ...... |
Perhaps he was impotent and hence could not have any kids.
Just like the 'fox and the sour grapes' idiom.... 
__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.
---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )
“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”
---Buddha
The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.
---Thomas Paine | |
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09-25-2007, 12:25 PM
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#33 (permalink)
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sorry I've never heard about the fox and sour grapes .....
I think it was b/c he had to work with all those child actors and/or that he was always either drunk or hung over ....
__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."
"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....." | |
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09-25-2007, 12:35 PM
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#34 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debdodd sorry I've never heard about the fox and sour grapes .....
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Strange that u don't know about the fox and the sour grapes idiom.
It is a western fable and comes from Aesop.
I like aesop a lot. Pretty good wisdom.
__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.
---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )
“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”
---Buddha
The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.
---Thomas Paine | |
| | |
09-25-2007, 12:41 PM
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#35 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
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maybe I've heard the fable but just not referred to as fox/grapes
__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."
"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....." | |
| | |
09-26-2007, 04:12 AM
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#36 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The fields of Rohan
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Mariachi64 Quote:
Originally Posted by Probability_Amplitude The story of abraham and his son is a metaphor for submitting yourself to God's will. Since when did people take biblical stories (or Jane Austen's novels) literally? | You gotta be joking me. People take the bible literally all the time. Hell, people take all sorts of holy books literally all the time. Suicide bombers? hello?
And if you want to crack your noodle, if your gonna start picking and choosing which passages are to be taken literally and others not, how do you choose which is which? where do you draw the line? If its okay for some things to not be taken literally, then isn't the entire book eligible to be read that way? Should you take creationism literally? A lot of people do. How do you choose?
Or better yet, what kind of authority do you think you are to say which passages are to be taken literally and which not? |
I don't have any authority. But then again, muslims don't follow the laws of the Quran directly. We follow fiqh (literally: guidance). Fiqh is derived from scripture and prophetic traditions by qualified scholars. So in the case of "killing your child if god told you to", one of the articles of faith is accepting the finality of prophethood (i.e God doesn't talk to man), so anyone who would make such a claim would be admitted to the looney house.
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09-26-2007, 12:03 PM
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#37 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debdodd maybe I've heard the fable but just not referred to as fox/grapes | Well, then how should we address it then !!!
I addressed it in the manner that came to my mind.
I believe that the words "fox and sour grapes " are enough by the laws of mental association to bring the fable to ones mind. 
__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.
---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )
“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”
---Buddha
The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.
---Thomas Paine | |
| | |
09-26-2007, 12:08 PM
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#38 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Probability_Amplitude Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Mariachi64 Quote:
Originally Posted by Probability_Amplitude The story of abraham and his son is a metaphor for submitting yourself to God's will. Since when did people take biblical stories (or Jane Austen's novels) literally? | You gotta be joking me. People take the bible literally all the time. Hell, people take all sorts of holy books literally all the time. Suicide bombers? hello?
And if you want to crack your noodle, if your gonna start picking and choosing which passages are to be taken literally and others not, how do you choose which is which? where do you draw the line? If its okay for some things to not be taken literally, then isn't the entire book eligible to be read that way? Should you take creationism literally? A lot of people do. How do you choose?
Or better yet, what kind of authority do you think you are to say which passages are to be taken literally and which not? |
I don't have any authority. But then again, muslims don't follow the laws of the Quran directly. We follow fiqh (literally: guidance). Fiqh is derived from scripture and prophetic traditions by qualified scholars. So in the case of "killing your child if god told you to", one of the articles of faith is accepting the finality of prophethood (i.e God doesn't talk to man), so anyone who would make such a claim would be admitted to the looney house. |
Was that the reason why Bahaullah, the founder of the Bahai faith, which preached the unity of all religions and the importance of rationalism and co-existence, was persecuted by islamic fundies and terrorists. 
__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.
---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )
“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”
---Buddha
The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.
---Thomas Paine | |
| | |
09-26-2007, 08:11 PM
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#39 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Mariachi64 stop being a coward and answer the question Jayhawker Soule | Stop being a condescending, adolescent bigot. The function of the narrative is clear to anyone with the slightest understanding of West Semitic culture and the role of midrash. | |
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09-26-2007, 11:57 PM
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#40 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Probability_Amplitude I don't have any authority. But then again, muslims don't follow the laws of the Quran directly. We follow fiqh (literally: guidance). Fiqh is derived from scripture and prophetic traditions by qualified scholars. So in the case of "killing your child if god told you to", one of the articles of faith is accepting the finality of prophethood (i.e God doesn't talk to man), so anyone who would make such a claim would be admitted to the looney house. | That's pretty interesting. I like this quote...we more or less are on the same page. The problem is that a lot of people, especially Christians, claim to have spoken to, been inspired by, or understand God's intentions. Yet they are not admitted to the looney house...its freedom of religion. You being a muslim understand that knowing God is impossible...kind of like why Mohammed is just a prophet, not a person to be worshiped, or why pictured depicting God are pointless, since no one can know what God looks like. (i know a little big about Islam from a few history classes - correct me if I'm wrong)
It appears the answer for you would be no, since, from a Muslim understanding, men can't receive messages from God. The question was aimed more directly at Christians, me thinks.
Now, regarding figh, I understand it comes from scholars...but studying God's intentions isn't exactly scientific, even if it is done by scholars. This isn't history their studying. With what authority do they claim to offer guidance?
- oh, and Jayhawker...you still haven't answered the question. Amplitude did, why can't you? | |
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