neverforever

I could make this a 2 word post but i decided not to.

Take 9-11 for instance there religion makes them kill nonbelievers to get into there heaven with 40 virgins.

Christians on the other hand always seem like they have to "save" non Christians. Why cant we just leave the people with brains for them self alone.

I was thinking earlier today that if there is a god wouldn't he want his people to stop and think about everything. I mean come on does blind faith really make any sense. Think about this if you were god would you just want everyone you created to do everything you said. Im hoping this starts a good discusion because i love hearing other opionions.

Og

People can be bad. Religion is just a thing.

Guns can be very dangerous in the hands of an idiot and even more dangerous in the hands of someone who knows how to manipulate them. The same applies to religion.

The problem is not religion. It's our attitude towards it. It's the way we allow people to just "have their beliefs and agree to disagree" and treat faith as a virtue. That's a sociological problem.

Religion is not bad. The word itself means "linking to the past" which can be a great thing. The science I practice is the most powerful religion in the world. It creates idols around which all of humanity gathers (TVs) and the conduits upon which the entire human race is connected and sorted and organized (telecoms and the Internet) amongst many other things.

I am a scientist/engineer. I am paid to explore things that we don't know. Back when the walled cities of 3500BC first came up, the priest class arose since minimal security was now achieved. The priests cast their eyes to the sky and many of the first large religions were developed based on OBSERVATION of the universe. This is the tradition that I carry on. The scientists basic needs are met and they live in relative security of research institutes where they cast their senses into the unknown and explore the universe from molecules to galaxies.

I carry on a powerful tradition of religion as a scientists that provides foundation and purpose for most of the human race. People often don't call it religion because we call "christianity" and such religions and they are some silly crap perverted by 1400 years of dark ages and oppression, but science is the one true religion of humanity.

It links us to the mystery of existence.

Religion is not the problem. People are the problem.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

debdodd

Wow Og ... when you want ,, you can really put it out there .... didn't loose my attention one time ... ijk .. seriously ... sounds like a religion I can buy into. Who is the reigning "God" in science right now??? Besides you .. really ... who do you think has presented a decent, recent, new batch of scientific thought out there? Are you a string, quantum or metaphysical kind of scientist .... I heard the biological side of you but the other surprised me.

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

duck

Same from me, OG! Eloquence is a thing of beauty. Amen.

sisterX

OG you seem to imply that science has not been perverted at all throughout history. Science has been perverted many times and used as fuel for the agendas of some insincere people.

When you say science i think you really mean "materialism" or "physicalism". Science is just the principle of observing nature, it cannot be a religion, the way you interpret those observations however, can be formed into ideologies such as the ones I have mentioned above.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

sisterX

But I do agree with what you said about people perverting religions.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

Og

Certainly. Just as all religions have. What science has is a way of getting back on track.. Religions do not have this. They just go with the notion that faith is a virtue while science takes the opposite as it's guiding principle. There are no sects in science. If something goes off track, the community lashes out and corrects itself and moves forward. There are no denominations... no "sides" to debate. There are only the observations and repeated observations and accuracy to a certain number of decimal places.

You are stuck on the idea that nature and material and energy is separate from what is divine. I understand that given your background and religion. I do not share this. If your path is not one of logic and observation then you have no foundation from which you can anchor your psyche. Science is the only mental structure that offers this.

If you are not basing your world view on observing nature then you are kidding yourself. This is what we have.. it's what our senses and our brains do. Anything else is insanity.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

pseudonous

Your just being poetic, right?

Og

No, there's no "just" about it.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

pseudonous

I think the basic idea of religion being bad comes from a confusion of religion with obstinateness. After all, christians always want to save you because they believe they are right and you are wrong. To them, you obviously are not grasping some elementary concept. This is very similar to the behavior of obstinate people. But, when we call people obstinate it is generally not just because they are being thick headed but because they are causing a problem. I don't think a christian trying to save you is necessarily a problem; possibly they genuinely want to help you. It is just something you have to deal with in a free society. Additionally, when a particular religion becomes dominant in a particular location the religious views of the people becomes stronger and they have a tendency to become obstinate. Thus, we tend to confuse being religious with obstinateness.

As for a suicide bomber that definitely goes beyond any obstinateness. However, general observation shows that suicide is aberrant behavior for religious, as well as, secular people.