lauraclay

People have studied what happened before the Big Bang, and there are several theories out there.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

jaej

Such as?

This is news to me, because I know for a fact we have very little understanding of what actually happened. It seems the physical laws that govern us now didn't really apply back then.

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alexie

Hi Jaej

Thiestic evolution!? I have been down this road many times with others.
I am sorry but honestly I get a bit bored with this. Its just me thats the problem though.
In short, I believe what the Bible says whether it is thiestic evolution, creationsim, creationsim with God then using evolution to go about its business without Him etc. There are many wondeful ideas out there.
What I do agree with 100% is the first line of the Bible. IN the beginning God created..... This I agree with. I can see creationism and Thiestic evolution as two possibilities but these in no way change my salvation, my love and my hope. Hope this helps.

alexie

jaej

Well, actually theistic evolution does change your salvation. It changes the entire christian story, because if the world was not created in seven literal days then adam and eve never made the choice to sin. There was no garden of eden. There was death and pain before there were humans. In short, the story of jesus' sacrifice as a literal account becomes needless and obsolete.

You believe what the bible says? The you are a creationist, believing the world was created in six literal days. Which is clearly false. I don't really know what you mean by this sentence:

The bible doesn't say all of those things. So what do you believe?

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alexie

Hi Jeaj

You are 100% correct about genisis and Adam and Eve
The six days of creation did happen but was it literal six days or the
1000 years is like a day to the Lord concept. The Jewish word Yom means day and is used and these two ways. So the Bible story does not change juts the way you look at it. That is where I am coming from.
I take the Bible as the Literal word of God. This does not mean I take it all literally as there is lots of aleegory and parable in thier too. By the way I take Genesis literally for the reasons you outline as the rest of the Bible will not make sense without it. So whether 6 solar days or six days as God sees it Genesis still works either way.

alexie

jaej

But, even if you believe the world was created in six thousand-year increments (or whatever), it still doesn't follow some basic scientific findings, such as evolution. Genesis as a literal story, whether six days or six billion years, is false.

And the six-day interpretation is certainly, beyond a shadow of a doubt, false.

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sisterX

The hebrew word 'yom' is the same as the Arabic word 'Yawm', which can mean day, or it can mean period. Now we know that this means, six periods rather than six days.

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"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

alexie

Theres that word evolution
Evolution over time. Change in small increments such as bacteria change into other bacteria and the original one cannot mate or reproduce with the new strain, Micro-evolution! This can be observed and proven. You are alluding to macro evolution of species changing into species. There is little proof of that but some there is. Fossils are where we can look but we cannot find the so called "missing" links. If there were changes over time then over millions of years the strata would leave behind so many types or species that can be seen to link up. Evolution can be a thiestic driven machine and does not contradict evolutionary thought and theory.

alexie

alexie

Hi Sister x

Correct! Yom is used in a wide variety of situations related to the concept of time. Yom is not just for days...it is for time in general. How it is translated depends on the context of its use with other words.

Even within the creation account, Yom is used to represent four different time periods.
1. Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate a 12-hour period
2. Genesis 1:14 "And God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate 24-hour days
3. Genesis 2:4 "...in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." Here, Moses uses Yom to indicate the entire creative week.
The fourth usage of Yom in the creation account is in the summary for each of the six creation days, "and there was morning and evening the first day". Yom is used to represent a finite, long period of time, usually either millions or billions of years. To show support for this, consider the uses of Yom by Moses.

Moses, the author of the first five books of the Bible, and of Psalm 90, used Yom in many different ways.
1. Genesis 4:3 "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord." In this instance, Yom refers to a growing season, probably several months.
2. Genesis 43:9 "...then let me bear the blame for ever." Here, Moses uses Yom to represent eternity
3. Genesis 44:32 "...then I shall bear the blame to my father for ever." Again, Moses uses Yom to represent eternity
4. Deuteronomy 4:40 "...that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth the, for ever." Here Yom represents a physical lifetime
5. Deuteronomy 10:10, "Now I stayed on the mountain forty days and nights, as I did the first time,..." Here, Yom is a "time" equal to forty days.
6. Deuteronomy 18:5 "...to stand to minister in the name of the Lord, him and his sons for ever." Again, Yom is translated as eternity
7. Deuteronomy 19:9 "...to love the Lord thy God, and to walk ever in His ways..." Here, Yom represents a lifetime. As long as we live we are to walk in his ways

As you can see, Moses used the word Yom to represent 12-hours, 24 hours, the creative week, forty days, several months, a lifetime, and eternity.

Hey Sisterx. What Islamic tradition do you follow(Shiite, wahabietc) and where do you live?

alexie

sisterX

Hiya Alexie, I prefer to just call myself a Muslim, denominations are what divide us, when we are divided we are weak, we can only gain strength in unity. And I mean unity of ALL humanity not just muslims.

I follow the Quran and the Sunnah (traditions) of prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him), I am a believer in Jesus christ and Moses and Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and all the other prophets of God (peace be upon the all).

I live in England.

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"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran