But what if there is a God? - Page 3

Ronin · 10-05-2006, 01:01 AM

Wait a minute, lets make sure we understand one another. To what book or books, exactly, do you refer when you use the term "bible?" In the English speaking world, to simply say "bible" without any other descriptor (such as "Boater's Bible" or "Bodybuilding Bible") nearly always denotes what is generaly refered to as the "Holy Bible" of the Christian cannon. You have elsewhere on this forum described yourself as a "devout Christian," so naturaly I took this to be your meaning. So when you claimed that "there is no mention of hell in the bible," I understood you to be claiming that the Christian scriptures (which include, of course, parts of the Jewish scriptures in the OT) do not mention hell, which is demonstrably false, as I showed above. So if that wasn't your meaning, then what do you mean by the term "bible?"

Come to think of it, are you perhaps Mormon, and by "bible" you mean the Book of Mormon? That would explain the misunderstanding - every other Christian denomination that I'm familiar with uses roughly the same cannon; the Catholics have a few extra books, some of the orthodox churches leave out Revelation, but none of them would deny the authority of the verses I quoted above, since they all come from the Gospels, the core of the Christian cannon. But I've never read the Book of Mormon (so many divine revelations, so little time - you know how it is

) so I'll have to take your word for its inclusion or non-inclusion of the concept of hell. Assuming, of course, that that's what you're talking about.

As far as the "unforgivable sin" and "glossalia" topics, I was quoting from the Christian bible to demonstrate that, according to the Gospel of Mark, at least, Jesus did in fact preach that there was a hell and an "unforgivable sin," i.e., blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The passage concerning glossalia that followed that quote was an account of my own personal experience of growing up in the United Pentacostal church, which interprets this verse to mean that, once you have "recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues (i.e., babbling nonsense)," if you later deny that that experience was from God, then you are irredemably damned (and I agree with you that it's BS). I was using it as an example of how my church, at least, used the fear of hell to make people afraid to ask questions.

Hope that clears things up for you.

mplltt · 10-05-2006, 11:29 AM

Ronin has a definate point to administer. The fact that there are many ways of interpreting many different books translates the way that we look at life. [quote=mplltt;1074]The bible is a book that was written in order to cover the supposed birth of Christ. If and when the birth of Christ happened, then he lived and died. I was taught in highschool (christian highschool) that the bible was written 40 years after Christ's death. So we take the bible to be a book that can be referenced, not a death manual for blood bath. The Old Testament was stolen from the Torah and re-organized in order to make the New Testament a popular read. One would have to be popular to read it. There is no God in anyone's heart, oh and by the way, I would like for you to read my post: http://www.agnosticforums.com/evolut...schools-5.html
(*for more on this quote go to http://www.agnosticforums.com/bible/...-flaws-3.html* look for mplltt, thanks) [quote]

Ronin, I am greatful that there are many ways to make a statement stick for people who read the bible. The damnation part is only to scare people into submission with Religion. Religion is popularly known as an opiate for the masses. religion is also a form of crowd control. Faith and belief in God is to each his own willingness to apply. As far as damndable sin, yes, there is some. I believe that I won't make it into heaven either. That is the choice I made, so forgiveness, humility, helping my brothers, nothing is going to stop that. But! Let me tell you what, I am willing to accept this higher power if there is more evidence to prove that God exists.
Read post:http://www.agnosticforums.com/what-a...ere-clear.html

The book that is refered to as the bible is here implied. Read my post: http://www.agnosticforums.com/bible/...ur-life-3.html

On Earth one will be saved, but you can't be expected to be killed for this anymore. Too much happens between being told that you are not christian enough and humility is ruined even more. We made it, we are alive and I hope that we can discover more. The future is with forgiveness, believe me. Is this what makes me human?

mplltt · 10-05-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mplltt

If the punctuation were utilized differently, could we be more able to forgive? I think that there is quite a possiblity that we can look at things in the present and the past. I believe that things get difficult then they reach an upper limit or a lower limit. Sometimes we have to approximate for all time and space to show that we are just perspicacious, and not going to ruin our sample or ribbon.

This can get out of hand. Perspicacious is used in order to describe willingness for clarity.

Forgiveness:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Definition of Forgiveness

forgive
–verb (used with object) 1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
3. to grant pardon to (a person).
4. to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies.
5. to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan.
–verb (used without object) 6. to pardon an offense or an offender.
—Synonyms 1. See excuse. 3. absolve, acquit.
"Forgive." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1). Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. 05 Oct. 2006. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Forgive>

dysfunctional · 10-10-2006, 10:20 AM

I believe religion is a way of life, if you look at the core of every religion all of them say the same basic thing. Different book came at different time and with different author, as for me I try not to do what i think is morally and ethically wrong, even if after trying to do good not hurting anyone i still have to go to hell then what can i say. I really don't think it is fair that all those people won;t go to hell just coz they believed in some book, and if god wants me to follow certain book and i did not and he is going to punish me, then i have a question for him, which one is right and who is correct.then he/she should have created only one religion shouldn't have given us opitions and tell us to choose, for me I respect all the religion and I have what so ever no problem with anyone.

**George** · 10-10-2006, 08:54 PM

In our modern society I see the whole thought process behind faith starting to crumble. People are starting to realize that they don't need to believe in something just for the sake of believing.

You can live a good life without faith. In fact faith, in itself, can cause people to do bad things.

Czurcz · 11-25-2006, 08:44 PM

If you have a plausable excuse for not believing in god then I am sure you will be forgiven.

LadyLuck · 11-26-2006, 07:01 PM

Hmmm that's a strange idea to me. Are you saying that i need to be forgiven for not believing in god? What's considered a 'plausible excuse'? Not trying to be defensive, just wanted to clarify.

Czurcz · 11-26-2006, 07:21 PM

I said what I said because this thread is about (or I thought it was about) whether we go to hell for not believing. As the title asks, "What if there is a God?", well my response is that if you have a plausable excuse for not believing in god then I am sure you will be forgiven.

A plausable excuse would be seeing eye to eye with someone who has a devastating illness, or indeed suffering from a devastating illness yourself. God can't damn someone for not believing because their brain is disfunctional or their skin is falling off. One might say that god offers reincarnation or a new life in heaven after this one, but the pain suffered by someone with a devastating illness in the mean time is uncompensatable and the idea of reincarnation does little to quench the thirst. I think that's a plausable excuse and therefore I shouldn't be punished either for seeing eye to eye here.

Having said that, I do believe in reincarnation even though I don't believe in god.

Love your avatar by the way.

LadyLuck · 11-27-2006, 07:09 PM

Ohhh i see! Thank you so much for explaining that to me, i was so confused! I should really read more than the last couple posts before i post myself lol

ANYWAY can't say that i really go for the reincarnation thing...but you made a great point! And as i understand it, believing in god is a requirement to get into heaven so to me it would make sense that people who don't believe in god (excluding the special circumstances you stated) would go to hell. *_* Did i still miss the topic of this thread???

Ty! The avatar is sally lol ^^

markx15 · 11-28-2006, 08:47 AM

"God" cannot be proven, because there is no proof. That above all shows us that choice is necessary, but that choice does not reside in what, but in how. We spend our lives searching for the hows the whys and the whos of the universe, and in that we sometimes make outrageous theories, only to be faced with the fact that someone doesn't believe what you believe. That alone proves that truth is universal to the individual that believes in it. We have been told our whole lives that we are unique, why then would we all share the same path to salvation? Search and you will find, look and you will see. "God" is what he is, there is no definition, there is no understanding, there is only life.
Concerning directly the question of "What if there is a god", I say there is no way to know.