What if there is no God? - Page 2

Faith · 03-21-2007, 04:47 AM

And how does an exploding star teach you morals? The knowledge of good and evil, the natural knowledge of God's existence that everyone has which some like to rebuke in their refusal to take responsibility for their immoral decisions. When will anyones evil desires be satisfied? Evidently never. People try to use science as an excuse to to what they want. "I can be gay if I want cause theres a gay gene!" Supossedly proven. No, not proven, accepted. It is immoraly satisfying and amputates the need to take responsibility and correct yourself. "There is no God!" As well as supposedly proven fact, but just as the latter, not proven, but accepted. There is no evidence to refute the existence of God, but saying there is no God authorises me to indulge in any immoral act I please. I can sit here watch immoral homosexual women do a porno for a few hours, steal rape and murder, and if no human eyes have seen me, I'm fine, cause, what eye has seen me as to give its bearer any right to arbitrate any conviction?

No sin, no evil or immoral act escapes God. He is all-knowing in the most literal sense. He knows everything you do and every though on your mind, that is why even in your mind you can sin. Thinking about killing someone is no different than acting on the thought, in that hating your brother makes you just as guilty, because hate is just as disgusting to God as murder. But every sin can be forgiven if you turn away from it and ask God for forgiveness, and anyone is capable of recieving the Kingdom of Heaven. However, some mistake this also as the authority to do what you please. They think they can do whatever they want and then after doing it ask for forgiveness and it is given. God knows your heart, God knows your mind, if you ask God with an honest heart to forgive you, He will. As Jesus said to Peter when Peter asked, "If someone sins against you, are you supposed to only forgive him seven times?" "Not seven, but seventy times seven." Jesus replied.

jaej · 03-21-2007, 09:13 PM

Faith, you do realize that you're just putting words in people's mouths, twisting them to fit your beliefs, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

People try to use science as an excuse to to what they want. "I can be gay if I want cause theres a gay gene!" Supossedly proven. No, not proven, accepted. It is immoraly satisfying and amputates the need to take responsibility and correct yourself. "There is no God!" As well as supposedly proven fact, but just as the latter, not proven, but accepted.

Okay. First, I don't know anyone personally or have ever heard of anyone that has claimed to have PROVEN there is no god. Do you know how ignorant and hateful you sound? You're making childish over-generalizations, and making yourself sound like a spiteful, bitter 8 year old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

There is no evidence to refute the existence of God

I suppose by saying this that you have some hard evidence indicating the existence of god? You have no problem pointing out fallacies in someone else's arguement, but you conviently ignore your own. Hmm..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Thinking about killing someone is no different than acting on the thought, in that hating your brother makes you just as guilty, because hate is as disgusting to God as murder.

Are you being serious? You believe your god makes no distinction between the thought of killing someone and the actual act? What makes you want to worship such a bigoted, jealous, intolerant deity? How is it fair? You believe that all 'sin' is equal? That tresspassing is equivalent to rape, petty theft to murder? That is absolutely ridiculous.

Your taking away from the subject, preaching about things that are completely off topic. I know you are just trying to help, but your message of condemnation, especially when it is so self-righteous and demeaning, isn't convincing anyone (at least I don't think so). If you really are so intent on 'helping' us, stay away from the preaching. No one wants to hear how their beliefs are so wrong, especially when it is from such an egotistical, irrational, hateful person such as you.

lauraclay · 03-21-2007, 09:23 PM

Faith, try to keep in mind that we are not atheists. We are agnostics. Maybe there are some atheists here, and I apologize if I am excluding anyone. But we do not deny the existence of god. We deny the definiteness of any one single possibility. We don't believe you are wrong for believing in God, we just believe there might be another option. Again, maybe this is just me. A lot of things you say I agree with. But I think maybe if we stopped just attacking each other, not just you faith, then we would get somewhere. Right now everyone just feels the need to defend themselves. There's no true exchange of ideas. This thread is a 'what if' possibility discussion. Not a statement that there definitely is no god. We are not supposed to be discussing whether or not there is a god, just what it would mean if there isn't. So Faith, maybe you could talk about how you think the world would be worse off because man would mess everything up by being sinful. Or talk about how there would be nothing because God is all. And maybe we agnostics could talk about some other aspect of it. But just attacking each other and not trying to learn anything is pointless. Again, sorry if everyone here things I'm wrong. Not trying to preach.

Faith · 03-22-2007, 01:58 AM

If I were to ask you if you know if I love you, you would say no, right? But I am only here because of love. I was thinking about leaving this forum and just abandoning all hope. But when I read the bible the next day, ironicly, I came to this verse, "So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it." John 10:12. And as usual, God reminded me what I must do. I don't care if you don't believe me, but it is obvious I am here because God wants me here. And when I was about to leave I read all these verses that talk about the good shepherd and it made me rethink that plan.

**The An-Jel** · 03-22-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

And how does an exploding star teach you morals? The knowledge of good and evil, the natural knowledge of God's existence that everyone has which some like to rebuke in their refusal to take responsibility for their immoral decisions. When will anyones evil desires be satisfied? Evidently never. People try to use science as an excuse to to what they want. "I can be gay if I want cause theres a gay gene!" Supossedly proven. No, not proven, accepted. It is immoraly satisfying and amputates the need to take responsibility and correct yourself. "There is no God!" As well as supposedly proven fact, but just as the latter, not proven, but accepted. There is no evidence to refute the existence of God, but saying there is no God authorises me to indulge in any immoral act I please. I can sit here watch immoral homosexual women do a porno for a few hours, steal rape and murder, and if no human eyes have seen me, I'm fine, cause, what eye has seen me as to give its bearer any right to arbitrate any conviction?

No sin, no evil or immoral act escapes God. He is all-knowing in the most literal sense. He knows everything you do and every though on your mind, that is why even in your mind you can sin. Thinking about killing someone is no different than acting on the thought, in that hating your brother makes you just as guilty, because hate is just as disgusting to God as murder. But every sin can be forgiven if you turn away from it and ask God for forgiveness, and anyone is capable of recieving the Kingdom of Heaven. However, some mistake this also as the authority to do what you please. They think they can do whatever they want and then after doing it ask for forgiveness and it is given. God knows your heart, God knows your mind, if you ask God with an honest heart to forgive you, He will. As Jesus said to Peter when Peter asked, "If someone sins against you, are you supposed to only forgive him seven times?" "Not seven, but seventy times seven." Jesus replied.

You know technically there is no evil. Evil is a manmade invention to engender power those with religious faith. It is these types of people that created evil. It was created to incite people to pick sides. Thats all.

There is good and bad. People that treat people adequately fitting the human race can be considered can be considered good, people who treat people less than human standards can be considered bad. There are very very very bad people out there and there are very very very good people out there to. It depends on what you want to do with yourself. If you need a God of any kind to remind you of your obligation as a living human being to treat others with respect well... thats up to you... shoving your need down peoples throats... is an entirely different animal.

You know if there is no God like this thread suggests then there is a good chance you won't be going to Hell. Are you saying that if there is no God of any sort that you will commit wholey carnage upon your fellow man Faith?

Faith · 03-22-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The An-Jel

:
You know technically there is no evil. Evil is a manmade invention

Oh yes, forgive me, I tend to forget that you are omniscient and have created a spiritual telescope to back up that claim

jaej · 03-22-2007, 08:45 PM

What does that even mean? I find it almost laughable how you can question the things he says with such childish remarks when you place your faith and belief in a 2000-year-old book.

lauraclay · 03-22-2007, 10:10 PM

Why does he have to be omniscient with a spiritual telescope to analyze morality and have an opinion?

Faith · 03-23-2007, 01:07 AM

Why do I to prove there is demons? If you people are so quick to believe him when he neither has the knowledge nor power to disprove demons, why such disregard for me and what I say? "Why does he have to be omniscient and have a spiritual telescope to analyze morality and have an opinion?" Well the answer me, why must I? Proof you cry, wheres the proof? Wheres yours? I would like to see it. "But faith we have clearly presented it to you through many subjects and arguments and you refute all rationality." No, what you have given me is theories of science which have no solid evidence, and makes claims of things unsure and unknown, and permit yourselves to constitute your theory while denying me my right to use God's word to constitute my faith. "Prove it to me," you say. "But without the use of the bible." Then equitable, prove to me your theory without the foundation of science to stand on. Without the use of any science whatsoever, prove to me evolution. If not then you are never again to say to me "Do not use the bible."

"But that is different," one might say. "We aren't even sure the bible is God's word, and even you must know it was written by men!" And hath God a short arm, that he can not guide a single man to write His message? No! Either you allow me to say what I must with the word of God, or you are not permitted to say what you must using the word of men!

**The An-Jel** · 03-23-2007, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Oh yes, forgive me, I tend to forget that you are omniscient and have created a spiritual telescope to back up that claim

Wouldn't even claim a spiritual telescope on this one. Just the nature of the religious beast to create something this damaging and ignorant against the human psyche. Wiki is good enough in this case:

Evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Evil as a religious concept
Most ancient polytheist cultures lacked a concept of "evil" as a human quality or as a quality of human actions, or if they had such a concept, they did not place as much importance on it as have their monotheist successors. This was also the case in many indigenous cultures, which had a concept of wrong doing, but deities, when present, were much closer to embodiments of elemental forces of nature. In the world of the Odyssey and Iliad epic Greek poems, for example, there are acknowledged human virtues such as honor, faithfulness, and vengeance (which later became a sin in Christian thought) but no direct corollary to the modern concept of evil. Likewise, Homeric characters are subject to judgement by the gods, but that judgement is often questionable as the gods themselves have imperfect, human-like characteristics.

In a number of religious traditions, human beings are considered to be "governed" by an innate bent towards selfishness and pride; qualities that are considered evil (see original sin). In others, humans may be considered naturally good, and evil to be a 'force' that tempts them away from their natural state.

Evil may be personified in the form of a figure of evil, such as Satan or Ahriman. Polytheistic pantheons often have trickster gods, such as Loki, which don't personify evil, per se, but are often associated with "the Devil."

Evil is just another way man fights against Nature.

Any possible way we can get on-topic?