Og

I was thinking about our recent addition to the forums (Faith), and proselytizing fundamentalists in general. It really seems that if satan had minions on earth, these people would be the best candidates for the position.

They swallow the dogma they're fed when they're brought into this world and they fall into a circular referencing system that, in order to maintain its stability, illustrates that questioning the validity of its own claims is something evil.

Sounds like quite the tool of an evil idea eh? The practitioners have no means by which to detect if they're led astray. And ironically, I think that this idea makes them believe that their eyes, ears, and mind are all tools of something evil and that if they use these components of their god given form that they are somehow giving into evil.

It's such a marvelous control mechanism that has them firmly in its grasp. It has them cowering in a corner of their mind afraid to touch any of the dials or use any of the equipment.

Here's a parable attributed to Jesus (it's where our word "talent" comes from):

People who refuse to use the talents that God has given them (no matter how few they are given) stir compassion in me. I hope that one day these people will put down their adherence to dogma and open their eyes to the world around them.

An agnostic view of questioning, doubt, and self observation is the only way to avoid being a puppet of satan. Ask to put your fingers in the holes in his hands. Otherwise, how can you be sure that it's jesus and not a tool of Satan trying to lead you astray. One of Jesus' disciples, Thomas, did just this. And jesus held out his hands for him and did not chastise him for doubting! And neither will he chastise you.


--The Incredulity of Saint Thomas by Caravaggio.


Those who don't, have no way of telling who their true master is. God created you in his own image. Use the talents he's given you to lead a life worthy of his gifts.

Go dig up your talents and use them. Don't leave them in the ground.

Thomas was the one to which jesus shared the secret:
"The kingdom of heaven is laid upon the earth, it is just that people do not see it"

Open your eyes. Bring your talents into use in the world/life that God has given us. Ask questions. Discern. Apply the fire to the gold to burn away the impurities (Satan). Otherwise, you're just like everyone else across the world that believes different things than you do. You're a puppet of some master and you can not tell who it is.

Apply this doubt even to your idea of God, for that is your ultimate idol. Wherever you feel that your mind is forbidden from doubt, cast the most light. For that is where your ultimate delusion will lay. When you behave in this manner, then you will truly know what path it is that you follow.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Og

I continue to wonder at how christians can call doubt a bad thing and then just glaze over the actions of one of jesus' disciples who will supposedly have his name on one of the pillars of the kingdom of heaven when it lands upon the earth in some bizarre end of the world event.

Thomas, the disciple of jesus. He wouldn't believe until he put his fingers in the holes in jesus' hands. The story is related in the Gospel According to John.

Yet most fundies call doubt evil. It seems like an untenable position.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

The An-Jel

I think thats why they call it ABSOLUTE FAITH Og... hehehe.

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Og

Absolute delusion.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Faith

Absolute faith. Doubt and faith can not be together, just as Christ and Satan can not agree. You will continue to mock wonders too great for you to understand, and say it is we who do it.

What is Satan's goal? Ever since the fall of him and the angels, it was to undermine our faith, to create doubt in our hearts, to doubt God's word that will utimately lead us off his path.

Faith in God is like walking a path. When we walk that path sometimes we doubt and stray from the path. Some for seconds, some for long periods of time, and some never come back.

People can call God unfair, and doubt his actions and question why he does certain things, not trying to fully understand why he does what he does. And even if they do as said, without recognising the basic fact that the Bible is God's revelation to men, our study of it is doomed to failure.

Without faith, our understanding is dull and our eyes blinded. I can honestly say, Satan's hold over me is now gone. He has not made me doubt, nor stray. I am dead to sin. This does not mean I can no longer sin, but I am dead to it's power. I still sin, that us obvious everyone does. But just because I have emotions and everything does not give me the right to do what God has told me now to do.

God did not create us with our sinful nature, curiosity, but not sin. We were perfect when he first created us. But God told Adam and Eve, do not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. But Satan came to them in the form of a snake, told them 90% truth, but then told them, "you surely will not die". He told them what part of it was "good" for them, but left out the part that would affect everyone in the world.

They said, "How wonderful it would be to become wise!" And they ate it. That was the first fall of man, and God punished them in many ways for their sin. But nobody became wise, if anything they became fools, and even the first people not long after Adam and Eve started to mock God and denied his existence. Hence, the flood. But God has put up a rainbow, so whenever we see rain, of any sort, we would be reminded of his promise to never again flood the world.

Of course, the rainbow has now just been set aside by science as reflections of light, like Christmas has Christ removed from it, Easter, and Good Friday. All these things people will change and leave God out of everything.

Things, which are all effects of doubt. It is doubt in God's word that brought about chaos to begin with. He said to Adam and Eve, that if they ate the fruit they would surely die. Satan tells them otherwise, and they believe him. And who gets all the blame? God of course, not Satan for being the one who lives only to make sure everyone goes to hell.

Doubt, is Satan's primary weapon. And when we fill our hearts with doubt, we become his weapon.

Geshtinnanna

So you actually believe there is an actual Satan?
Interesting.

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Faith

Satan has much easier time making tools and weapons out of people who don't know they are being made into one. Not believeing in Satan makes his job alot easier, cause you feel no need to reject the temptation he puts in your mind.

Satan still has some point of control in my life, we are not perfect. But i can tell you, from his trap I am free, and will not go back into it. "This shows that the proverbs are true; a dog goes back to what it has vomited, and a pig that has been washed goes back to roll in the mud".

I wont go back to the Godless life I left behind. I'm sure it bugs Satan that a fool like me who used to scatter, is now trying to gather. I don't care though. When you feel tempted to do evil or turn from God, I think you should be happy. want to know why? Because it shows you that you don't belong to Satan anymore.

Satan is ever watchful of my words, trying to make sure I will say something I shouldn't, such as allowing my personal feelings to get in the way. It annoys me when people go against God, and so I can get angry. But God warns us about anger and causing our brother to sin. This is what Satan makes me do when he uses my anger. He seeks to destroy what God has made.

If God wants us to gather, Satan wants us to scatter, God's wants us to be happy, Satan wants us to be sad. Satan wants the oposite of anything God would want. And Satan tries to poison our minds and confuse us of God's intentions, stirring doubt in our hearts, and thus submitting to his will.

Geshtinnanna

Alrighty then.
*backs away from the screen

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Faith

It works well evidentaly...

Satan will be cast out soon though. I wonder what that would feel like in general when he is gone...

"There will be no more death, no more grief, nor crying or pain. For the old things have passed away..."

Geshtinnanna

It's got to be an awful feeling to believe something so evil is really in your life. I am sorry for you. As for me, I have no God or Satan. And I am quite fine with that.

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