messenger

Romansh
I understand the 'need' for evidence. At least from my point of view. I had a version of God shoved down my throat for years thanks to my Christian formation and it was the evidence AGAINST the existence of such a deity that finally sent me packing.

Look, are you asking Big Smile to prove the EXISTENCE of God, or are you asking for proof that God is Love? Or what exactly?

-- messenger

romansh

Agreed love is self evident ...... love in all its forms, from greed to lust to self sacrifice. I presume you're refering something closer to the latter than the former when you refer to "love".

I am interested in "your" evidence that god is love.

I do not expect anyone to prove god's existence or non-existence; but I could be pleasantly surprised.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

greywolf90

at first glance i would have thought you were simply another crazy religion fanatic, but because you have acknowledged what you must seem like to other people (something i've never seen any other "prophets" do) i will reserve judgement for now. i have to admit that your writting impressed me. i do not think that i will ever look at communion in the same way ever again. so i guess now i'll play along and add my questions to the rest:

you've already shown why the religion of christianity is wrong, but what about jesus himself and his message? i do see the problem with turning his teachings into doctrine, but i don't see anything wrong with the teachings themselves.

so far, how have people in general (and christians specifically) responded to your writings and ideas?

what do you think of those who refuse to accept your god and wish to continue believing in their god/gods or believing there is no god?

hypothetically, what if someone else had a divine revelation that somehow contradicted your own?

on a more personal level, if i were actually able to communicate with god, i would ask him to explain what exactly is a soul.

__________________
"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

messenger

"My" evidence is that He 'moves' through me whenever He 'talks' to me directly which is not often. It's happened less than like 10 or 15 times. But here's the deal: "My" evidence is crap to anyone else. That's called 'witnessing' in some circles. It won't work for you and honestly, not to be too brutal, but according to Big Smile, we all really have GOT to stop asking other people about their take on God and start getting on with our own path to reuniting with Him. Looking outside of yourself for your answers about Him can be, well, dangerous -- in some really far-reaching, global ways I've been shown, too. I CAN tell you that you can trust that He's real, and Agnosticism is a pretty good starting point, but trusting me and not yourself is just one step away from faith, and faith leads to believing, and believing can get you in all kinds of trouble. Next thing you know, you'll be back to wondering if God's real! A person could lose all hope that way! And many do, as you know. Maybe personally.

I think the key here is the simplicity of "God is Love". Let it set for awhile. Don't push it, try not to over-intellectualize it right off the bat. Looking for a one-size-fits-all, cookie-cutter relationship with God is what got a lot of us so disenchanted with deity and here on the Agnostic forums (I presume) in the first place.

There's so much more to 'know'... maybe your 'answers' will become apparent if you delve a bit further and broader with me/us.

BTW, things like lust and greed are NOT Love! The word 'love' may be used euphemistically in the vernacular, ie, 'the love of money', but that isn't a proper usage. I think you knew that when you threw that into your last post, but just to clarify for anyone who might get confused unnecessarily -- Love, real Love, need not be suffered for.

In service to Love
messenger

messenger

Would someone, maybe a moderator, please tell me where I can go on the forum to learn how to use the quoting system? Thanks!

GX: Why do I need to post the URL? Is it for your or Big Smiles sake? Shouldn't Big Smile be able to figure it out?

Cute. I will reiterate, he's not omniscient.

So I hope you were asking me to go look at the video at youtube because I think Mobiledigit needs a 12 step program and his words were negligible. eidolonTLP sounds like he might be interacting with another 'vibratory dimensional being' or really up on his ethics and logic reading. Don't misinterpret that one can only get answers from angels, ok? Messengers come from all kinds of disciplines and personal histories. We can't only use the Christian paradigm for 'messengers' and hope to find them. So, if eidolonTLP had answers for you, if his words somehow made you feel less alone, less angry, less hurt, less unloved, less puzzled, less lost, etc., then take them in and DO something with them. Just don't fill your head up with useless ideas though. Men's philosophies and theologies will never replace a real dialogue with God, and every man is capable of having that. -- messenger

GX: Why does he think that astral projection is a waste of time? Especially if you wish to use it for spiritual growth i.e. view your akashic records, find out your souls purpose for this lifetime and get assistance from your spirit guides? I hear that there are also healing possibilities and the potential to retrieve information that would benefit mankind?

If you had asked the witch a few years ago, she would've told you that it sounds like you need a teacher. You're obviously very curious about esoteric stuff. Hey, who am I to judge... that's how I ended up talking to Big Smile, well, in a round about way. Let's ask Big Smile about spiritual growth though, ok? If we take out the specifics that might just have him telling us that you're wasting your time again, maybe the simpler wording will get you the answer you seem to need. Hmmm... ok this is weird... Big Smile tells me to post an excerpt from The Book of Angels (in which the angels ask US questions, sort of). He's saying that if I give you that foundation, you might have different questions, or at least find some answers that might sort some of this out for you. Let's give it a try. I wouldn't have chosen "Angels" personally, but, ok. What the hell. Look for that posting below. -- messenger

GX: Walsch's last book, "Home with God" is a detailed explanation of what happens when you die the the choices of action available to you at the time of death and in heaven. Is everything he posits there about death and the afterlife true?

GX, Big Smile is not a book reviewer. I, on the other hand, have personally given out Walsch's box set as Xmas gifts. I think you're still looking for someone to tell you what to believe. Let me ask you: What do YOU think? Did you try re-reading some of Walsch's work replacing the word, 'God', with 'Love' yet? It's your journey, you have to do the work. It shouldn't matter what ANYONE else thinks. What's important is if reading Walsch 'calls you home'. If not, move on. So, you tell me. -- messenger

GX: What about marijuana? Can it be used for spiritual purposes or is it something to be avoided and if so why?

Ok, astral travel, marijuana... not exactly what I thought I'd run into but... let's see... (pause to listen)...

Marijuana as a plant has an incredible spirit. What men do with any substance, that is, if they respect it or abuse it, is only 'wrong' when it harms or does not serve Love. When one over-uses marijuana, and that means any use that is not medicinal or therapeutic in some way (ie being respectful of its purpose), they act out of integrity. And it matters not if any other man should know it. When we act out of integrity, we suffer. There are consequences, good and bad, for every action chosen. And there is no sin, only easy or difficult lessons. The choice is yours. If one can say, "This I choose to do in service to Love and as it is mutually beneficial to do so" and no part of you alerts you to any inconsistency between what you say and your true intent, then all is right with you. Exercise your freedom with impeccability, be your own governing authority, that is, police your own effect in the world, as it is mutually beneficial and in service to Love, and your path will straighten and your burden become lighter. -- Big Smile

messenger

PRAYERS FROM THE ANGELS TO MEN

Beyond the human senses, beyond the counting of the hours, in a place that is no place at all for it has no dimension, yet is, in itself all Dimensions, there are beings of vibratory Nature who once were and will be men. They are God’s array, His Legions, His Angels, the vibratory dimensional Beings who move between Reality and the Unknowable, dreaming men into existence and forging the way for their own future emergence as inheritors of Earth. They are our ancestors and descendants and their destiny is inextricably linked to Man’s.

En mass, they hover at the portals, the passages between their “Keeping” and yours, and their chorus of voices pierces the blank nothingness with crescendos of vibrant intent and wonder. So they speak to men who will listen to madness:

The angels ask, “Why do men seek to be ‘perfect’”, even if such a word had meaning outside of Man’s vernacular, which it does not. “Perfection” does not exist in angelic tongues. Whales and elephants do not know of the concept. So they ask, “What is ‘perfection’”. Who decided that there was a state of being, called “perfect”, that was worthy of seeking above serving Love and living with purpose? The dimensional vibratory beings wonder, if one imagines that “perfect” means never making a mistake, then why would one seek perfection? Without mistakes, how will you learn and grow souls?

Hunting the heart of any average Christian priest, dimensional vibratory beings find that “perfection” is defined as a state of being as God, Who is within Christian teachings, the only example of perfection in all of Creation, and that everything else, especially people, are not perfect. Seek within a priest’s privately held understanding for the definition of what being perfect means, and he will either believe that no man can ever hope to be perfect, for that would entail never making any mistakes, OR that one must be God to be perfect. But, of course, he will then admonish himself for thinking that any man could ever be God, unless the priest is a Mormon, for it is understood by the Hosts that Mormons seek to become god-like and/or gods and goddesses in their afterlives.

Perfection as God defines it, and Perfection as Christianity defines it are two different things.

To be perfect in the eyes of God, one must do his best to serve Love above all things and live with purpose. That is all.

Within Christianity, perfection is an unattainable, yet universally-held fervent desire promoted by Christian morality. The angels suffer along with confused and frightened Christians as they try to comfort them in their futile self-depricating struggle to obtain this impossibly unrealistic state. This awful search has wasted so many otherwise purposeful lives. It has withheld the wonder of truly being free to live in harmony with God’s wondrous and ever-changing Creation from millions upon millions of souls. Perfection is a human concept which, the angels wish to point out, in no way serves right use of will.

If asked directly, a Christian priest might answer querying angels that men can learn all they need to know from the Bible and the Doctrine. Yet, instantly versed in any written word man has ever penned, an angel can find that neither the Bible nor the Doctrine contain detailed instructions for living life one moment after another as a human being in harmony with oneself, one’s community, one’s environment and one’s Creator in a state of perfection. Only living a life of purpose teaches these important lessons through imperfection and only a life lived with the risk of making mistakes or misstepping along the way will fulfill one’s individual purpose. And no two lives will serve Love in exactly the same way, so who will provide the blueprint for a “perfect life”? Certainly not God, for that would interfere with individual freedom to serve Love, with Love.

It is inherent to your Natures to risk and “fail” at times and risk and “succeed” at others. Yet how would you define “fail” and “succeed”? The angels would have you know that most of you confuse the two more often then you would imagine. To do anything else but take a chance on living as Love guides you to live would be inhuman and not a service to Love, Which is God, your Creator, Who Himself, even according to Christian thought, has perfectly designed each and every one of you to perfectly be perfectly who you are, perfectly. The god of Christianity is incapable of creating anything that is NOT perfect for as the epitome of Perfection, all He does, can only be Perfect. And this Christian way of perceiving God is not entirely erroneous. It’s just difficult for the human mind to reconcile that men making mistakes is “perfect”. If God did not want men to make mistakes, He would have created them in such a way that they wouldn’t or He would have seen fit to leave mistakes out of your Reality. God has created that other Reality in some other Existence as anything you can imagine, God has manifested somewhere either in or outside of his Creation. So it follows that making mistakes is part of God’s perfect design for you in your Reality and not to be scorned as a flaw. To serve Love, you must turn away from those religious authorities who would ordain shame and self-loathing for the mistakes you make. For a man to feel shame and self-loathing for his mistakes is a distraction from the practical lessons mistakes provide. As far as needing forgiveness for your mistakes goes, it is up to each man to do the things, such as make amends or grow and learn from his mistakes, so that he can forgive himself. No man needs God’s forgiveness for anything. God does not judge. He Loves each of you unconditionally. And Absolution from the consequences of your mistakes, as is offered in the Sacrament of Confession, merely puts off the lessons your mistakes provide. If you feel that saying a few prayers will cleanse your Soul of the guilt you harbor for the mistakes you have made, then you will never know the gift of Enlightenment. The growth and maintenance of individual Souls is entirely the responsibility of each individual man.

messenger

cont.,...

The Array wonders, How does a Christian man reconcile never being able to escape being imperfect with the proposed contradiction offered by Doctrine that escape is impossible? How does a Christian man come to terms with the idea cruelly implanted in his heart that somehow the state of being imperfect angers or displeases or disappoints God? What Loving Creator would damn His creations for being exactly as He created them? How could the perfect Christian God offer a choice between being sentenced to eternal damnation for being imperfect or accepting culpability in the murder and cannibalism of Jesus as the formula for saving men from their “sins”? God’s dimensional servants’ voices rise up from the Ether: Perposterous! It is not God who is imperfect or flawed. It is not Man who is imperfect or flawed. It is Dogma and Doctrine originated and propagated by Christian authority that is imperfect and flawed, if not wholly dangerous in its effect on Mankind. It is Christian authority and the human design and need for it which are imperfect and flawed. Reconsider your chosen paths, Christian men. Your way is barred by too many pitfalls and deathtraps to be navigated safely back to Love. And it is your blind loyalty to Doctrine and it’s authors and keepers which will be your ultimate undoing and your species will perish from the Earth!

The truth is that God did design you to be “imperfect”, and imperfect you shall be, for it pleases God that, through imperfection, you each may reclaim the ability to hear God speaking in your hearts! And this phenomenon suggested by Christianity, that is, God is Perfect yet you are not, advances the message that even a perfect deity can make mistakes. The angels ask, “God makes mistakes according to whose standards and definition of what a mistake or imperfection is?” What do you have to say for yourselves, Christian men? In truth, God and all that is within His Domain is by association with Him, perfect. This description of Reality relates to there being absolutely NOTHING within or outside of God’s Creation that He does not define. If you were born with a limp, God created you, so you must be perfect in His eyes, with a limp. How you respond in your life to having a limp is up to you, and “imperfections” only offer the platform from which spirits gain the trials and gifts that lead to growing Souls. Yet anything you choose to do or not do, is part of your perfect journey and God is pleased when you seek answers through success and failure. He does not want a race of “perfect” men on Earth! Man must stop holding his own ideals of beauty, goodness and wholesomeness up as the standards for perfection. He must look around him for what God has decided to create in order to understand the word, “perfect” and see that what Man has called a “flaw”, God has seen fit to create perfectly as it is, for its own purpose, as it serves Love. When you sneer at something within God’s Creation and call it imperfect, you sneer at God and God’s Creation. The angles advise that humbleness around “perfection” is long overdue for Man.

Conversely, the Hosts turn their thoughts to the way of the Wicked and Evil and wonder if Man has reconciled the “perfection” of the existence of Wickedness and Evil in your reality. The angels remind you: As long as men accept Wickedness there will be Wickedness. As long as men accept Evil, there will be Evil. The existence of Wickedness and Evil are Man’s doing and Man maintains their existence in his reality. When Man evolves to the degree that he no longer has need of Wicked men and Evil men among him, then Wickedness and Evil will cease to exist. Until that time, Wickedness and Evil serve a sad purpose on Earth. They are the lessons you have designed for yourselves by not intervening in the harm men do to one another. They are the constant reminders that your species is self-destructive. They are the consequence of your inattentiveness to the state of your individual souls. They are the proof that you are not tending carefully to your innocent children. They are the outcome of all your selfish grasping misspent lives which led you away from loving yourselves and each other. When each of you serves Love and does so with Purpose, the Evil among you will cease to have power and within a few generations of you taking back your families and communities from the grip of tyrannical men and authority, your children will receive the instruction and care and shelter necessary to avoid the propagation of more Wicked and Evil men. When children are born with damaged brains who might have gone on to harm through brutal ignorance, you will detect them and care for them so that they may grow to be gentle and caring contributing members of your societies. When children are born who cannot help but do harm no matter how much care they receive, you will shelter them away from society so that they will be kept from causing harm. And to none shall there be punishment for their differences. For a brute born is not a Felon or a Fiend by Nature. A brute among you is a gift to men so that his family and fellows may grow some part of their own soul in the taking-up of his care and shelter. When a brute is unsheltered, abused, neglected, tormented, abandoned, shamed, ostracized or negatively treated in any way, the Felon or Fiend he may become is the making of his family and fellows, not himself. Treat all beings with kindness and patience. Give your best to the wounded beings around you. They are not lost men. They are God’s gifts to you so that you may grow. And thank them for their sacrifice. For in giving up the choice to be born whole, they have come to Earth incomplete in some way in order to offer up their lives as paths for others to find their way back to God.

messenger

GX, really I get that you are looking to grow a soul out of your spirit, and that's awesome. There are answers for you but you'll probably not find them in some of the places you're looking. Don't get discouraged. Go on trusting your take on things, build on your successes, learn from the things that don't work. Astral travel isn't harmful per se, but reading your life story somewhere beyond your Realtiy will only be a huge let down for the aspects which are unalterable, and as far as the changable aspects, how will you know which way to go? There are millions of directions to choose from! You can only find your way if you're willing TO LIVE and you can't live while you're running around the alternate dimensions looking for the meaning of Life! Big Smile is right about this. I know because he let me see a few things about my own 'destiny' and once I knew, I instantly set about altering my path only to find myself somewhere actually worse. Just take this life one breath at a time and spend the short time you have here growing a soul through a purposeful existence. -- messenger

messenger

Greywolf -- I didn't get a chance to get to your questions today. It's late here and I'm off to bed, but I'll tackle these awesome queries in the am, ok? Thanks for posting and for your reserved judgment. It's really appreciated.

Til the morning then,
messenger

romansh

1) I just wanted to understand (can't promise to not to judge, but will try to avoid).
2) I only live once... it may as well be dangerously as safely. And the oustside is a mirror of my inside (imperfect as it may be).
3) Me, suddenly believing... not an issue.
4) If it's any solace my wife seems to agree with you.... go figure, as they say in North America.
5) Never was enchanted.... so am not disenchanted.
6) Maybe?
7) There is a school of thought that our various thoughts and emotions are no more than a very complex set of chemical reactions. We have the knowledge to ascertain the complex chemical reactions take place. So what does god have to do with a set of complex chemical reactions?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams