Herra1

To be certain.
You mean that, do we have a choice ?
Do we have any saying/choice in choosing something ?
Do we have maybe an illusion, that we make a choice, when in fact it is not ?
As an example: How, or did, i make a choice to be agnostic ?
Are we on a same wavelength ?

romansh

I am saying, some say that we do not have a choice just an illusion that we do.

How did you choose to become an agnostic.... go back and think about all the influences that led you to this apparent "choice"!.

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Herra1

Illusion.

Definitely.
Solipsim is very tempting philosophy, but it has its problems though.

This agnostic thing, You wanna hear ?
I was sort of raised to it, my parents really didnt said anything agaisnt it, but if i remember correctly religion was for these other people, and we as a family, dont need it.
But i had time in my youth when i read bible, and it just raised more questions. I just set these questions about god away, didnt bother me.But these ideas that You have to be born again to go to heaven....
Why, for the just god, he wouldnt do that. But then again, what do i know, right ?
I had all these questions, but i didnt made anything to solve them either.
Then i read some agnostic/atheist literature. And here i am.
So up to that point that i made the decision to "embrace" agnostism was, the way i see it, a long road, that had it fullfilment, in that illusory moment i made concoise choise to be agnostic rather than theist.
And thats why i am saying that the choice is illusory, because if my parents wouldve been different, my friends maybe different, the bars i went and got guidance, different, i probably still would have stayed, in that fog that agnostism moved.
I hope i wasnt too tiresome.

romansh

This is not solipsism.... definitely NOT.... at least for me.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Herra1

Tentatively said, why not ?

If we keep this idea in mind, that we dont know nothing PRECISELY, except information.

To be more specific.

You know that You have made a choice, but from where that information about that choice came from ?

If You say it came from me/romansh. Where are You then ?

Me, personally can see that this romansh writes His thoughts about choice to me but can i be absolutely 100% sure that He exicist ?

This choice to answer You/romansh, where IT comes from ?

Do i make sense ?

romansh

Hi Herra,
I don't disagree that solipsism exists as a philosophy.
I think it has some interesting concepts.
But for me it is not a practical philosophy (from the tiny bit I have read)

The argument/discussion about having 'no choice' embraces external "inputs".

When I make a choice... I know a choice has been made by my mind/body.
Is that choice the sum total of all my "life inputs" ...food, experience, etc?
Or is the choice made with just reference to these things?

When we make a choice how much influence does our (sub) unconcious have?
So when you ask 'where did your choice to answer me come from?' is exactly the same question I am asking you!

This is like another thread where Og said that 'cruise control' on a car is self aware. When switched on the cruise control has no choice but to either inject fuel or not depending on the set point. As it turns out you had no choice but to respond to my last post???

I agree ... I feel like I make choices ... but is it just a delicious illusion?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Herra1

So hard to argue against hardcore sceptic.
Solipism is one of those philosophies that makes sense in theory, but what you cant use, in real(?) world. And i would like to belive that my workplace still exisist, although i dont see it.

I endorse the illusion answer.
Like how i became agnostic.

But what about, if someone would say or demand that, now, right now, at this moment, i have to start belive in god.
Yes, i can make that choice, no problem, but why i feel, that it is not right ?
Why would i feel that i let me myself down ?
There is this whole feel of rebellion/loath inside me that says YOU CANT DO THAT.
Why ?

Why, when making these kind of choices like, do i like vanilla icecream over chocolate, we do have preferances ?
Taste.
A sense of humour, do we have control over them ?
Are we really an empty space, when we are born ?

Eastspur

Iv heard theories from Christians that hell is absence from god and that absence from god is non-existence. Either way I do not think I would want to spend eternity with a god who send souls to hell, lets souls go to hell, or lets souls be destroyed. In my opinion if "god created everything" then he is responsible for everything that has happened. He had to have known that some people would not accept the bible as truth on faith alone. My 2 cents.