The An-Jel

I wonder about a God the same way I wonder about the Universe. A core question I think everyone that cares to ponder it is "Why are we here?" While God is a philosophical concept it is a possible plausible answer as to why. Acts that seem random would no longer need to be random... if there isn't a God then the acts are random but at least a human would know. It really goes both ways. Anyone who doesn't ponder the ultimate reality doesn't really need to be in this forum but because we are it seems to me that we are still asking these questions.

I know I am and I ask beyond the religions that make no sense and beyond the tiny human societies that attempt to rule us with an iron fist... Why are we here, finding the how's and why's of the Universe are a complex way of doing it since they are our only lead so far.

As far as omnipotence goes... shrugs... a God doesn't have any need to be omnipotent or still in existence. Hell the Universe could be an experiment gone right, wrong, or simply awry. It is all so vast and amazing that I can't wait to find the answers.

I had to read that book for my Philosophy 101 class. "Why Bad Things Happen To Good People " and I simply ask the question: what defines a good person and who knows the mind of his God. The Rabbi seems like a fleshed out person but the Universe according to the "good book" doesn't seem as fleshed out as reality portends.

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Nick Treklis

Going by my definition of God, the only thing that deserves that title would be The Totality of all there is. For me God is synonymous with Nature, the Universe, the Infinite, Ultimate Reality, and as I've already mentioned, the Totality. So going by my definition, yes God is omnipotent, but anything that can be distinguished from another thing is not omnipotent and doesn't deserve the title of God, e.g. the christian (pagan) "god".

loophole

If you are referring to a religious "God", I think He would have to be omnipotent. All religious gods that I am aware of have supposedly created everything when nothing existed. Therefore, what or who would be there to limit His "powers" while creating the universe. This is why any religious "God" would be a sadist, because they had the power not to allow suffering on earth. I present this argument to theists and all they can do is deny their "God" is a sadist without any reason.

If you are referring to the general idea of a higher entity, it could possibly not be omnipotent. For example, if matter already existed while this "higher entity" was creating the universe then there could be rules or limitations to its power.

QuantumTheory

[quote=Nick Treklis] This sounds indistinguishable from the pantheistic philosophy, that 'All is God'. However, you are using the term 'God' as a synonym for nature. This is the revisionist interpretation that atheists have ascribed to justify their 'pantheistic' philosophy. In classical pantheism, God is seen as a divine sentient-entity, that encompasses all existence, potential, energy, matter, space, time, laws and constants, as this was the creation of his/her powers. This view is consistent with Baruch Spinoza's philosophy, yet people such as Richard Dawkins consider this 'sexed up atheism' when the term God isn't twisted as a descriptive metaphor. I think this quote sums it up nicely, "Atheism and pantheism are often wrongly confounded". Shipley.


The Christian God is actually based on the Hebrew God (YHWH) who is one and this view is also accepted by the Moslems, Bahai's and Deists. However, the Catholic Church decreed the concept of the Trinity; God the father, God the son, God the holy spirit. Not all Christians accept the Trinity which is an explicity pagan concept. The Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Universalists, Latter Day Saints, Arians and the Gnostics accepted the belief that Jesus was not God.

John 17:1-3 Jesus prays to God.
John 4:22 Jesus worships God.
Hebrews 5:7 Jesus has reverent submission, fear, of God.
Acts 3:13 Jesus is a servant of God.

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"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me".

Isaac Newton 1643-1727

AB517

[quote=QuantumTheory;32506]comes down to what we say today has been said already.

what is your point?

QuantumTheory

Yes, that is the purpose of these forums, to discuss people's positions that have been presented in the past and analyse them from our perspective. What would be the point in having these AgnosticForums then?

My point has been emphasized in my posts. I'm not going to restate it again.

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"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me".

Isaac Newton 1643-1727

jenisahyena

Your original post is a little vauge in the area of differentiating the Christian diety known as "God" from the general idea of higher powers. At first you seemed to be talking about the Christian God but then near the end there I wasn't sure that is what you were really trying to get at. I see that a couple of members before me have tried to narrow the scope of discussion, but I am going to go ahead and reply to your original post anyway.

Throughout history philosophers have formulated theories about the enigma that is our life's Higher Power. There have been ideas of "first mover" type powers, "guardian" type powers and "custodial" type powers and more.

To state that a higher power must require omnipotence, we would first need to assume what sort of power it was. After all, an omnipotent "first-mover" power doesn't seem to make much sense, does it? :P

To begin assuming things in the realm of religion is a dangerous game...where to stop, where to stop?

-Jen

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yero2277

I believe in a God but not an omnipotent God . A creator of Man but not of the universe. Ithink believing in an omnipotent God is a comfortable safe place for people who need to believe someone is in control of everything even as far off as the stars. But reality is that If the Christian God is a true god he certainly did not create the universe. The ancients (Eygyptians, Mayans, Summerians etc.) were given advanced knowledge from someone and they were the first Known Gods on earth and where every other god story came from thereafter and in all there stories there gods left in their benben which is in the Bible. The word benben is in the bible ( i am not sure where but I will confirm) Obviously stolen from the Sumerian's creation story as it predates the Christian story. In Sumer benben meant spaceship. so omnipotent or not there omnipotence came from another planet

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And Hence the Messiah did return in his SPACESHIP