Ronin

I was going to add this question as a post on one of the "Why do you believe what you believe," threads but then I thought that it probably needed a thread of its own. So for you Christians who visit this site: what makes you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was (or is) God incarnate? I mean in a personal experience sort of sense, rather than being persuaded by the evidence of the resurection, etc (although, come to think of it, that might make an interesting thread as well). When I began researching the evidence for and against Christianity in college, I ended up concluding that the evidence wasn't conclusive, but it seemed like something strange had happened, and that most of the attempts at non-Christian explanations (for example, that Jesus actually survived the crucifixion) seemed pretty far fetched, but then I thought, "More far fetched than believing that a human being was actually God incarnate?" So then I decided that the question couldn't be settled simply be looking at historical evidence, but that I needed to have a personal encounter with Jesus in order to believe. So I prayed and I waited, I waited and I prayed, but nothing happened. I mean, we're talking serious prayer and fasting here, for a couple of years, from someone who wanted it to be true. But, while I often seemed to feel the presence of God, I never had any sort of experience that seemed to link him to that particular Jewish carpenter who'd lived and died 2,000 years before. So ever since then I've wondered what it is that makes Christians believe that they have a personal relationship, not just with God, but specificaly with Jesus.

mtatum4496

Not everyone who understands their religious heritage as Christian espouses the concept of the Incarnation.

Unitarians early on saw Jesus as powerful, the ultimate teacher, and the one who was sent by God to teach truth. But Jesus was not considered to be on the same level as God himself.

Latter Day Saints of different denominations hold varying views on the nature of God, some of them downright traditional trinitarian, some of them almost unitarian.

I am far less concerned with the status of Jesus in relation to the nature of God than I am about what I can glean from the teachings of Jesus himself. Other people can argue back and forth till the cows come home about the nature of God. I'm content to read what I can about what Jesus taught during his ministry and go from there.

MickinEngland

Oh just one or two little things ;)
MIRACLES OF JESUS Miracles of Jesus Christ
Bringing little girl back to life
Bringing widows son back to life
Bringing Lazarus back to life
Stilling the storm
Feeding 5000
Walking on sea
Feeding 4000
Coin in fishes mouth
Withering fig tree
Big catch of fish
Water into wine
Another big fish catch
Healing leper
Healing Centurions servant
Healing Peters mother-in-law
Healing sick at evening
Healing paralysed man
Healing haemorraging woman
Healing two blind men
Healing mans withered hand
Healing Canaanite womans daughter
Healing boy with seizures
Healing blind man
Healing deaf and dumb man
Healing another blind man
Healing crippled woman
Healing man with dropsy
Healing 10 lepers
Restoring a cut-off ear
Healing noblemans sons fever
Healing crippled man at Bethesda
Healing a born-blind man
Casting out demons into pigs
Curing a mute lunatic
Casting out dirty spirit
Curing a possessed blind-dumb man
Appeared to his followers after his death
---------------------------------------------------

SithLord

Now provide proof that any one of those is anything more than a story..

You christians are so easy going when it comes to selectively choosing which stories in the bible you stand behind and which you try to explain away as stories meant to carry a meaning and not to be taken literally.

Must be nice to have such convenience....

LadyLuck

lol that's so true, many christians tend to twist how you should 'take' the bible in order to fit their point.

__________________
=^.^=

MickinEngland

Nah, Christians LURV the Truth, it's beautiful!
That's why in the Bible we read that Jesus's attempted miracles sometimes flopped, and that elsewhere he had temper tantrums, and that he allowed his right-hand man Peter to carry a sword, and that he said the night before his crucifixion "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it"..
See, none of that's been edited out over the centuries, that's why we can trust the Bible, it says the truth straight out..
Here's more on the same theme -

JUST LIKE YOU AND ME by Mick
Jesus wasn't much to look at -"He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him" (Isaiah 53:2)
And Paul was nothing to write home about -
"For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful, but his appearance is unimpressive, and he speaks poorly" (2 Cor 10:10)
And Moses admitted to being unable to think on his feet-
"O Lord, I have never been eloquent, i'm slow of speech and tongue." (Exodus 4:10)
And Jonah was so scared he refused pointblank to be a prophet -
"Jonah ran away from the Lord and headed for Tarshish." (Jonah 1:3)
And Jeremiah said - "Lord i'm no good at speaking, i'm too young and people won't take me seriously" (Jer 1:6)
And Jesus said "Oh God I don't want to die tomorrow, get me out of it if you can" (Matt 26:42)
The moral of all this? - many Biblical people were as ordinary as you and me..

SithLord

You're right. Thanks for making that point. The bible is full of contradicting glory and stuff that just plain ole doesn't make sense. Yet people follow it like it's the truth.

Point to a passage that makes no sense and another that contradicts itself and a christian will say that's just an example of the bible speaking truth.....

No... that's an example of the bible being wrong. Blind faith is a powerful thing

But hey the bible is awesome

lemmex

I think you miss the point of the laundry list of miracles of Jesus. Magic was more common then we think and in this time there were other cases of the dead being raised, things Jesus did himself. These miracles were not atypical. These were primitive people.

The question asked is really a modern one. We don't even know if Jesus existed yet we automatically take it ture because the Bible says so. For whatever reason Man has a need for God, it's that simple.

We believe in the New Testament because we believe in the Old Testament, just as the Muslims believe in the Koran, because there was a Torah. Everything is relational. I know we don't like hearing this. If there was no Judaism there would be no Christianity or Islam. Notice mankind was not able to go beyond the precept of God once it was established.

Yahweh, Jesus, Allah are all the same and fill a need we have. They give us purpose, peace (at least suppose to), insight, and fulfill us spiritually, but appartently not insight. In every religion we have strayed. I've always wondered if we could prove one religious idea was wrong, then would the other give in and follow. Religion reflects society. The more stable the society the more open the religion will be (with bias of course).

I really hesitate to try proving a specific (national) God doesn't exist becuase I don't think man could handle it. I think many people just would not be able to cope with that, to the point the world would come crashing down around us, it's just that serious.

I think Jesus has the element that allows us to approach God. He is a step back in time. The plausibility of God incarnate has to be taken real as the OT gives evidence of personal God that manifested himself physically several times. This came to be reinterpreted over time as incorrect to the point if you came in contact with God you would die. God once walked the earth, and was the type of God that sat down and eat a meal with us to becoming being comic and unapproachable. God can't be that elevated. At one time we could touch him to not being able to. Jesus humanizes God once again and hence why he is personal. To us that has become and is important, to other cultures that apparently is not important and they want this unapproachable non-personal God. I hate to classify this as political and societal but that's what it is.

All religions I think carry God too far.

Mocopo

Why did i choose Jesus? Because my mind works logically, and logically, to begin with, there is more proof that Jesus of Nazareth lived than there is proof that Julius Caesar lived. There is proof in plenty of other writings of this man named Jesus traveling around Israel performing miracles. There is plenty of evidence that this man suggested himself to be God.
So, what do I do with this evidence? It still doesnt prove that He WAS the son of God, even God himself..... so what next?
Well, Jesus was one of two things: he was either a crazed lunatic, or he was really God. When i look at the Bible, non-Christian scholars and historians are willing to say that it is the best record of ancient history to date, and it is in fact 99.9% proveable..... the only unproveable parts being the actual miracles and signs.
Well, this is where faith comes in. I am an all or nothing person. If i can believe 99.9% of a book, why cant i believe 100% of it?

the reason I came to Christ also has one other dimension to it tho. No other religion, with the exception of Islam, has a permanent Hell, except Christianity. The way i see it, by believing in Christianity and living it, according to Mormons i still go to heaven, according to Catholics i do pergatory THEN heaven, buddhists and hindus would say i get to try again, athiests and most others say i cease to exists, and then other more recent religions would say that I would lead a good enough life to go to heaven anyway.
Christianity is the only one that says "believe this or burn in hell"
sry to put it so blunt, but tahts the way it says it. I dont suger-coat.
needless to say, I am afraid of hell as it is described in the Bible.
Basically, when it comes down to, I chose to take my chances with Christianity.
Now, i excluded Islam from that whole thing. Basically, i have chosen to not believe Islam because it contradicts the Bible in many wayz.

Melos

I'd really love to see a list of these writings. I'm not being argumentative here Could you provide links or other information about these other writings that include Jesus? Thanks.