MJ "revoltingpawn"

Are the secular-humanists winning the battle of God? Is Jesus no more than a marketing scheme? Are churches revenue centers and nothing more? Does American culture still need God or even want him?

We will attempt to answer these questions as well as examine the continued relevance and resiliency of mono-theism in the modern era, and what the trends are telling us. This series hopes to engage those interested in religion and those who only wish to learn more about religion and it’s place in American culture, both today and tomorrow.

Hoping my fellow agnostics will enjoy this new series...

Does God Have a Future? (Part 1)

The debate and discussion is starting to heat up and all comments are welcome.

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Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog

Astral

Part 1 eh?
I will simply cut to the chase. The article is nothing more than an attempt to trivialize God. Suppose people did actually follow that religion that is used by people of power to institute control over people. Aids would most likely be wiped out by now. How? Because people would only be having sex in Wedlock and with only 1 person in their entire lifetime. Now you can toss in polygamists but if they remain bound to their vows then only that subset of people could possibly come infected.

Lets get this straight... blaming religion as the source of the worlds problems is patently intellectually dishonest to the extreme. Mankind is whats evil... not religion and not its absence either. The article stated that religion was dreamed up by people in power to control others... I guess that shows you where that root of evil actually is. It is typical of these types of people to blame religion instead of the person that deluded people in the first place.

A religion can be one of peace... but that will not stop evil people from making it look bad to others. Likewise a religion can be one of war, but it does not stop passive people from being kind and gentle to their foes instead of killing them.

Do you wish to blame the real source of the problem? Or do you support placing blame incorrectly? Enjoy your very intellectually dishonest article.

MJ "revoltingpawn"

Astral...

We are being intellectually dishonest and you are not? Did you even read the rest of the posts in the series since we are now at part 5 now?

"The article is nothing more than an attempt to trivialize God."

Thanks for spinning the title of the post.

"Suppose people did actually follow that religion that is used by people of power to institute control over people. Aids would most likely be wiped out by now. How? Because people would only be having sex in Wedlock and with only 1 person in their entire lifetime."

Using a unrealistic and impossible real life scenario is a way to support an argument? Come on... We live in the real world.

"blaming religion as the source of the worlds problems"

Not a conclusion stated in any of our posts.

"Mankind is whats evil"

If you had read the rest of the series and the comments by me would see you are indirectly supporting our argument! Since religion is man made it can be used for good or bad but well look at the sad history of mankind. Religious beliefs has been a main source of oppression, suffering, and war. Monetary gain and power are benefits that drive these evils but the belief that God is on your side allows it to happen and lets you sleep at night.

One of themes of the articles is God separate from religion or the same as?

For those interested in the rest of the series...

Link to article #1 here…Does God Have a Future? Part 1…An Introduction

Link to article #2 here…Does God Have a Future? Part 2…The Conundrum Between Spirituality, Religion, and God

Link to article #3 here…Does God have a Future? Part 3… Has Satan Been that Bad Really?

Link to article #4 here…Does God Have a Future? Part 4…Are Mega-Churches Hurting God?

Link to article #5 here…Does God Have a Future? Part 5…Fundamentalist Atheism on the March

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Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog

Og

That's neat and all, but you're basically saying that people are the reason for the state of the world. This is what humanists are about. The only thing the religious alternative states is that there is a cop out higher power that you can give up responsibility to.

I think that's the point of the humanist movement. It's growing up and discarding the need for a father figure and taking responsibility for our own actions. OF COURSE the problem is the people and how they interact with their religion. I don't see how any of this is intellectually dishonest. I think that, in fact, its empowering to want to toss literalist religion and take responsibility for our own actions.

I also tend to think that that was the entire point of Jesus' teachings. The divine mystery is not something "out there" that is responsible for the state of the world. The divine mystery is something "in here"... This is what it means to be the son of god and to be identical with god: "I and the Father are One." John 10:30

I think jesus was an ancient humanist.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

AB517

Yep I agree, he wasn't Christian that’s for sure. What ever ya want you to call them they are the same thing in the end. It starts with us first. Noah's story is about using the God given tools you have and save your own jazzbow.

MJ "revoltingpawn"

Og and AB517...

Thanks for making intelligent comments to add to the discussion.

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Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog

shaun

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." - Matt 28:18

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." - John 6:32

For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. - John 10:17-18

"And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was" - John 17:5

"for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world" - John 17.24

Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." - John 8:58

And the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning. - Luke 10:17-18

Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" - John 20:28


And many, many more that show that Jesus was far, far from being just a humanist.

MJ "revoltingpawn"

shaun...

Since there is no way to know for sure that Jesus was the son of God his humanist side is more important and relevant to us.

__________________
Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog

Og

I think it's clear you don't understand what a humanist is. Least of all by your use of "just" as a preface to the term. Jesus was most certainly a humanist. All of your quotes above illustrate it. It's just that you, Shaun, don't understand the mythological context of the texts you quote.

All of the text you quote are sayings that which humanists state for themselves today! What's irrelevant is the literal nature of jesus as son of god. What's relevant to humanism is the psychological meaning of the quotes you present. Particularly those quotes are the DEFINITION of a humanist today in terms of language from 1700 years ago.

Furthermore, Jesus was clearly not the first one with such ideas. Jesus' teachings and claims (as quoted by you) are direct translations of Buddhist teachings into Hebrew iconography. This makes much sense given the cultural and national makeup of the time as from xerxes and darius to alexander and ashoka, wars and buddhist/hindu missionaries were going back and forth between the east and west.

Go tell someone in India that the son of god has come into the world and that he is love and compassion and they'll say "what's the news?" and you can be sure they're not referring to christianity.

I can understand your stance, however. Most people live dogs lives. When a human stands up out of the pack, it's easy to label them a God.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Astral

You guys have got to be kidding me.

My first post is spot on. I am right, you are wrong.

Whether it be Science, Paganism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or Secularism evil has been carried out in their names.

Blaming God(s) and or a (non)Religion is blatant ignorance. You people are so shallow that you are equal to the sheepish ignorance of the blind followers in all the religions. You grow from the same tree they do, just on a different branch.

Blame everything else but ourselves... thats what that article is! You sound like a bunch of kids making excuses to avoid punishment.