Does God Have a Future? (Part 1) - Page 4

MJ "revoltingpawn" · 01-06-2008, 07:31 PM

Does God Have a Future? (Part 6)…How Christians Try to Dismiss Science When Questioning the Existence God

Hoping for the continuation of the discussion on this series unlike some past comments that were irrelevant. Feel free to also comment directly to the blog on any of the posts in the series.

Astreja · 01-06-2008, 11:41 PM

Hi, MJrp. I just read Part #6 and would like to comment on this:

Quote:

A popular tactic, as is the case with the ideas of “Intelligent Design,” is to move their claims outside the boundaries of what modern science can prove or disprove, rather than admit that their beliefs conflict with science.

By moving a claim to the realm of the unfalsifiable (example: A god that exists "outside space and time"), it also moves the claim outside the realm of science. If a piece of data is not available for examination, it is unavailable for inclusion in a hypothesis, too.

Astral · 01-08-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astreja

Hi, MJrp. I just read Part #6 and would like to comment on this:

Quote:

A popular tactic, as is the case with the ideas of “Intelligent Design,” is to move their claims outside the boundaries of what modern science can prove or disprove, rather than admit that their beliefs conflict with science.

By moving a claim to the realm of the unfalsifiable (example: A god that exists "outside space and time"), it also moves the claim outside the realm of science. If a piece of data is not available for examination, it is unavailable for inclusion in a hypothesis, too.

How about the opposite?

If God does have such great power as the Christian's claim, is it not equally as dishonest to limit Him to our meager concept of reality and then marginalize Him? Christian's hold the view that God transcends corporeal reality.

Even if Religious zealots are lying out of their teeth they are still being more honest about such an existence than Science in general.

Tit for Tat. These comments are all double edged swords.

Astreja · 01-09-2008, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astral

If God does have such great power as the Christian's claim, is it not equally as dishonest to limit Him to our meager concept of reality and then marginalize Him?

In my opinion, this is not dishonest at all; it is, however, the way that we currently view and test reality... Through limited, human eyes.

Both 'God' and its alleged power are currently unverified entities. They are wild cards that could have values anywhere from zero to infinity. As such, they are meaningless for the purposes of scientific exploration. We can measure how fast objects fall to the ground and derive consistent formulae. We can mix two chemicals together in fixed proportion and obtain consistent results. Currently we are unable to formulate experiments to test for gods in order to determine their attributes.

Astral · 01-09-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astreja

In my opinion, this is not dishonest at all; it is, however, the way that we currently view and test reality... Through limited, human eyes.

Both 'God' and its alleged power are currently unverified entities. They are wild cards that could have values anywhere from zero to infinity. As such, they are meaningless for the purposes of scientific exploration. We can measure how fast objects fall to the ground and derive consistent formulae. We can mix two chemicals together in fixed proportion and obtain consistent results. Currently we are unable to formulate experiments to test for gods in order to determine their attributes.

Can you tell me what it means to be a God?
Can you even tell me the meaning of existence?

I am willing to bet that you cannot even answer all questions about yourself. Tell me how it is honest to Limit something that has the title of God - and the definition that goes with that? The end result and by your own post would be meaningless for the purposes of science.

Therefore I will agree with you about testing reality with limited eyes, but at least we can get our hands on some of it. Know of anyone that has their hands on God? There are somethings we can know about God, but certainly not enough.

Astreja · 01-12-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astral

Can you tell me what it means to be a God?

Only from My perspective.

On a more serious note, my own definition of 'god' is flexible enough to include advanced but mortal extraterrestrial beings. I do not, however, think it likely that any immortal, omnipotent and omniscient being exists in this universe.

Quote:

Can you even tell me the meaning of existence?

I personally don't think that "existence", in and of itself, ever had or indeed could have a meaning. My life has meaning for me, but not for anyone else.

Quote:

I am willing to bet that you cannot even answer all questions about yourself.

I don't happen to need or want answers to all the possible questions someone could ask. I manage fine with massive quantities of ambiguity, error and change, and am content with occasional, imprecise answers. The pursuit of ideals, absolutes, perfection and the like appear to me to be elaborate wastes of time better spent elsewhere.

Quote:

Tell me how it is honest to Limit something that has the title of God - and the definition that goes with that?

But what, exactly, *is* that definition? There is no accepted global definition of what a god would or should be, let alone a definition for a capital-G God.

Even if we do manage to agree on a definition for a god-entity, the existence of the definition does not make the entity magically pop into existence. It remains unproven and still does not belong in a scientific setting. First prove that it exists and qualify and quantify its attributes, and then we can move on to its participation in scientific matters.

ThomasHenry · 01-14-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astreja

But what, exactly, *is* that definition? There is no accepted global definition of what a god would or should be, let alone a definition for a capital-G God.

I was listening to a (agnostic) philosophy professor, and he defined god as "That than which nothing greater can be conceived".

Still trying to wrap my mind around that one.

shaun · 01-14-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasHenry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astreja

But what, exactly, *is* that definition? There is no accepted global definition of what a god would or should be, let alone a definition for a capital-G God.

I was listening to a (agnostic) philosophy professor, and he defined god as "That than which nothing greater can be conceived".

Still trying to wrap my mind around that one.

It's the classic definition as worded by Anselm, in his famous work the Monologion, and extended in the Proslogion. It is commonly referred to in the Ontological Argument, and is a widely accepted definition in philosophical circles.

MJ "revoltingpawn" · 01-15-2008, 04:04 PM

Does God Have a Future? (Part 7)…God vs. Pop-Culture…Who’s Winning the Battle for Teens?

See has been a good discussion going on about the last part in the series. Feel free to also comment directly to the blog on any of the posts in the series.

MJ "revoltingpawn" · 01-26-2008, 06:39 PM

Does God Have a Future? (Part 8)…Do People Only Turn to Religion When They’re Desperate?

It has been quiet on this thread of late... Where is everyone? Feel free to also comment directly to the blog on any of the posts in the series.