MJ "revoltingpawn"

Astral...

It was not science that convinced Germans to go along with Hitler's War plans. Nobody believed that BS except a few people in power. Hitler did invoke God and their destiny in this speeches all the time. Check this out...

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

Not sure what you were trying to say in the rest of statement... Catholic dogma?...supporting my argument? socialist state?...Hitler's Germany was Fascist.

Ummm... was not millions

It was waste of time of you giving counter examples since never said Religion is the only factor and influence for people but just the biggest and sorry you can't argue that.

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Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog

Astral

I do not deny that there were religious overtones. But the Germans are major Scientific leaders then and even now. For a bunch of religious zealots they certainly seem to excel at science far more than any other nation.

But Hitler used that to his advantage. Socialism is against core principals of what the Bible teaches. Hitler USED religion to stoke the flames of war. He knew what he was doing. You say it yourself... in the name of religion people have been slaughtered and cities destroyed. The leaders used it to their own ends. Scientists that experimented on humans say the ends justify the means.

I can accept that millions is a trumped up charge... it happens all over the place. Everyone gathers statistics that makes their arguments look good. If you have a reliable number lets have it. Care to produce?

Ohh... I sure can argue that. My stance has always been that, It is not the religion, it is mankind. A tool is just a tool and Religion was a tool. Blaming a tool for responsibility is is the same as blaming a gun for killing and not the person that pulled the trigger. Once something becomes organized, it goes down hill from there.

The logic is simple... blame the murderer, not his tools. Saying blame religion for the people they have killed is the same as saying hate mexicans, africans, russians, americans, chinese, or your favorite race/nationality for the people they have killed.

Now if you want to blame a culture... thats a different story.

MJ "revoltingpawn"

Astral...


Sorry Hitler did not use scientific research to convince his fellow German's to invade all of Europe. Almost all wars are justified by convincing the masses that it is God's will and their destiny. Listen to his speeches...but funny you seem to agree with me anyway. George Bush told us God is on our side and it's his will to invade Iraq. Hell he even said God spoke to him. LOL Why does he say this because people will believe him! You can have a million real reasons to go to war but at the end of the day need God on your side.

Socialism is against core principals of what the Bible teaches? Huh? You could say it whats to be a replacement for religion. The point of Socialism is the state is the center of the people's existence and not God so the state tells you what to do. Not agreeing with but at least more honest in not telling us it's God's will. The Bible teaches us many things and some are contradictory, some are illegal these days , but yes contains a little truth.

OK now your going over the deep end now... Comparing a gun to religion? Religious indoctrinate has been ingrained our CULTURE since the beginning of time. Yes religion is part of our culture and the biggest part. In fact, it's part of our psychological makeup! The reason why feel guilt as kid when masturbate, why say God told us to do it when become a serial killer, and to justify wars. Since you said we can blame our culture then thanks again for agreeing with me.

Wish you responded to my response when you said I was troll but guess maybe you were embarrassed about that whole thing.

While its been nice and you may have the final word but I will not respond to any more comments that don't have to do with the original reason for this thread which was the series "Does God Have a Future?". The main theme was since all religions were born from cultures and times not relevant to us today and of course are man made so why do we need religion anymore? In fact people are starting to turn away and develop their own personal beliefs not forced on to them from a guy on a pulpit saying he speaks for God. Any one like to continue that discussion?

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Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog

Astral

No I agree with that. But like I said... Hitler used it as a tool to stoke the fires. But you still can not blame the religion. You have to blame Hitler for abusing it, and the sheep that followed. If someone fools me, it is my shame as well. Hitler was not religious, he used it as a tool, just like a firearm. A tool to accomplish his desires.

You just provided supporting evidence that my statement is correct. If socialism is to be a replacement then of course they are at odds. I would say we are in much agreement here. But there is no way I could go for socialism. No entity on this earth that is more corrupt than myself will be my God and tell me what life is about or what to do. The people at the top can use either Religion or Socialism to control people. If the person has good will and no corruption then the population will prosper, but if they only want to abuse their power then the population will suffer. It makes no difference if the government is religious or not.

You have missed the boat on this one my friend. A culture can have a religion, but a culture is not made by a religion. There are many DIFFERENT cultures with the same religion. Now a Religion can have impact, but that level of impact is never the same, sometimes it is very small, or non-existent and sometimes it is large and overwhelming. This is why it is unfair to blame religion. Because it has shown to be relative on all sides of the confrontation.

And when they develop their own personal beliefs are you going to start blaming that next? If you do then you are only fooling yourself like I said earlier. Blaming everything else but the most responsible part, humanity itself.

God will always have a future. The vast majority of people Believe in God in one way or another. I will show you the dishonesty in this article. It focuses on only the abrahamic religions. There are far more than just that.

And I like his reference that the past few years are all supposedly "remarkable". This has already been foretold. Things are moving along just like clockwork. I dare say it is this world that does not have the future.

greywolf90

i think the apostles followed some kind of socialist/communist system in Acts 2:44-46. "...and had all things in common; and sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need..."

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"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

Og

It followed my post and said "you guys".. That's all.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Astral

The way they did it is very fundamentally different from government methods. Government does NOT part to every mans need. They part to their own desires, and what they THINK you should have, not what you need. It is elitism in its purest form. The people in government are treated as God's, they get the largest share of everything. Big luxurious houses, armed protection services, motorcades, aircraft, free PRIORITY healthcare, lots of time off from work, attend parties, and step on the little man.

If real socialism existed as that in Acts I would be very welcoming of it. But that just is not going to happen when the government controls it. It must be controlled at the local societal level with the majority as willing participants. The gypsies are kinda like that... and they steal a lot, see many people really liking them?

greywolf90

your right. iwas thinking of the socialist ideology while you were talking about the governments practacing socialism. it's just like there is nobody practicing a true democracy but a representative republic instead.

__________________
"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

Astral

Spot on!

I guess this is where things become confusing. The core belief of socialism in the actual definitive sense is inline with the Bible considering Acts.

so·cial·ism /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
Compare utopian socialism.

But... if it is implemented by Government then I don't like socialism.

This provides a fine example of how the meaning of words change. I would like socialism by its definition, but I don't want it being implemented by government, and will even start a war if necessary to prevent that. Now if local people got together and shared I would think that is Great as all get out. That WOULD be a Utopian society. But we can already tell that people are way too selfish for that.

But I have been socially engineered to see socialism as only a governmental implementation and therefore I fight against it. What a confused world we live in. I always prefer clarity over agreement, I offer my apologies for not making myself more clear on the type of socialism that I was referring too.

I am pretty satisfied with our conversation here, it was a pleasure!

MJ "revoltingpawn"

Og..

Been meaning to address this comment but Astral side tracked me with nonsense.

I agree with the Buddhist influence on the teachings of Jesus. The bible only covers the life of Jesus from birth to what age 12 and then picks up at age 32 or something like that. Always found it funny that the book of God does not tell most of the life of the son of God. Its makes sense that he developed his beliefs in the far east from his travels. This would tell us that we are all more interconnected in our beliefs then some so-called religious leaders would like to admit. We have this gap in the bible because even Jesus had to find the path to truth and search out his own faith. He should all take this example and realize each one of us needs to take our own journey to find our own truth. Don't just blindly follow the same path of some man made religion that tells us is the truth!

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Ideas and Revolution - If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog