marmalade

I was just reading a thread by Og where he mentioned literalism.

I've been studying mythicism in terms of Christianity. Several authors I've been reading mention the problems of literalism. Tom Harpur speaks quite a bit about it in one of his most recent books. It has been a major distinction running as a theme through all of Acharya's writings. Freke and Gandy also discuss it in their books.

Interestingly, none of these three scholars are strong atheists. Harpur still considers himself Christian even though he no longer believes in a historical Christ. Acharya considers herself spiritual, but I don't know that she identifies with any particular tradition. Freke and Gandy consider themselves Christian Gnostics or maybe just Gnostics which they seem to use as being more or less equivalent to mysticism.

Anyways, what is the connection between literalism and monotheism?

And what is the relationship between monotheism(one right god) and...
Nationalism(one right country)?
Racism(one right culture)?
Righteousness(one right truth)?
Monogamy(one right sexual relationship)?

What is with all of this idealizing of oneness?

Astreja

It's a way to minimize the possibility of rebellion within a society. It reassures a group of people that they're on the "right side", and makes it easier to identify dissenting thinkers so they can be dealt with.

I think that if one lives in such a polarized environment for too long, ambiguous situations actually become stressful and one starts to actively avoid questions that don't have clear yes/no answers. This would create a highly inflexible population unsuited to deal effectively with never-before-seen problems.

Just my $0.02...

Og

These are not ideals of one-ness. These are ideals of two-ness. One right one and then all else that are wrong. This is "base of the pyramid" stuff. This is a list of sin-stuff which is in the fields of categories of thought. These things have nothing to do with oneness.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

marmalade

I agree. In reality, it isn't about oneness. I was thinking, though, that it may seem like oneness to many who hold this viewpoint because they'd be likely to dismiss the viewpoints that differ.

Monotheists idealize one God, but when you look at their theology carefully you realize there are two main deities because Satan's power can challenge God's power. Most Christians aren't monotheists in any absolute sense. They're henotheists or monolatrists.

If you honestly look at Christianity(especially Catholicism), its hard to distinguish them from many polytheists who also belive in some greater power. Traditionally, Christians believe in a whole hierarchical pantheon of angels and devils, mystical beasts and godmen.

So, why do self-claimed monotheists perceive themselves to be worshippers of oneness? How do they rationalize it? What is the psychological benefit?

plainskeptic

My old linguistics teacher at the University of Florida claimed that the "idealizing of oneness" had to do with the "idealizing of oneness" in the structure of English grammar.

The "Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis" claims that the grammar a group's language greatly effects their thinking.

My linguistics teacher would have said that English, for example, had a bias toward singular forms rather than plural forms, e.g., pronouns, even when speaking about people in general. Only recently have some people tried using plural pronouns when speaking about people in general.

marmalade

That is an explanation I'd never thought about. That could be a major contributing factor, but I wonder how that works out in other languages. For instance, many of the early Christian texts were written in Greek, and the Greeks were interested in monism before that. And what about monotheism in terms of the semitic languages.

Has anyone ever seen a book or website that discusses the relationship of linguistics and theology?

WilliamBlue

What about something older than language, the tribe mentality? If you are not part of my tribe then you do not count, except for monogamy which also could be explained by promoting peace within a tribe?

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Og

Hindus understand this well. The base 3 chakras (levels of their spiritual path) speak of health/wealth/progeny. The third chakra (the navel) speaks to Nationalism/racism/etc.. It's the "will to power".. ALL politics are of this level. It has to be. Whatever you stand for, no matter how beautiful, it stands against something (what is not it). This is NOT oneness. It is baser religion.

Oneness is described in the hindu spiritual path at the level above the navel (the heart) where you find the sound "Ohm (Aum)"... That is the fulcrum of their entire experience. Living in terms of this exclusiveness that you're describing is to live cast out of the garden of eden (i.e. in categories of thought). It's to have ideas of boundaries between you and those that are not like you. It is NOT oneness by any stretch of the imagination.

It is spiritually inert. This is what all of western religion is today (except for science) and it is the central reason that the religion is stagnating and dieing. It does not even begin to speak to the new world we live in where the boundaries have disappeared and we are in a single unified globe (this is what science speaks to and enables).

There is no unity in the bigotries of baser popular religion. It only keeps the status quo by creating illusory boundaries between things. This is the essence of sin (i.e. categories of thought brought into our experience in the garden of eden).

What to be free of sin? Become a scientist (ironically).

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

romansh

Hi Og
Can you explain what is (and what should be meant by) spiritual? The reason I ask is, from the age of thirteen I have wanted to be a chemist, forty years on I still am a chemist... lucky? During that time I have not considered this particular pursuit, or science, spiritual? I'd appreciate your thoughts.

The other question was if I remember correctly you are pursuing a PhD; if so where do you find (have you found) the time to read all the religious texts?

ps Started on The Hero with a Thousand Faces won't get to far with that book. Watched The Power of Myth... beer interfered with the perception. Now reading the book of the same title... interesting.... I'll get back to you on my thoughts when I've finished

all the best

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Og

I got my PhD in Biophysics from Cornell last May. I found that once I got a taste of stuff like Campbell's work that I couldn't help but devour my extra time opening my mind to that new body of information.

To me, PhD is the new "Reverend" title in our society. The ritual is there and, generally, the academic PhD performs many of the functions of the classical clergy.

They offer a pedagogical stance that guides other minds through the educational process. They offer a cosmological view that is unparalleled in how it connects us to reality (as opposed to literal interpretations of 6000 year old science). They have their own community which regulates itself and which transcends boundaries in place by governments and other people.

The new religion is that of the community of the globe. There are no longer relevant cultural or community boundaries when you can be anywhere in the world in a matter of hours on a plane and you can communicate anywhere on the globe at the speed of light.

Science and Engineering have created the backbone upon which the modern human lives. They provide them with the artifacts that they use to connect to their culture and family (i.e. TV's and Computers and Cell Phones and transportation).

When I mean that science is a religion, I mean that it guides and informs our lives. What are the tallest buildings in our cities? It used to be cathedrals. Now it is business buildings who are informed in their materialistic pursuits by scientists (not classical religions).

Science offers a true and evolving understanding of our place in the universe and illustrates the transcendent truth of being in that there are no real boundaries that have ultimate meaning.

Engineering, long ago, came up with the answer to all questions. Engineers like Fourier and Laplace sat down and said "how do you solve a problem" and came up with things like the generalized fourier series and systems engineering. It is the answer to all questions. You just need to insert in the specifics of your certain question (engineers/scientists call these boundary conditions) and your answer readily appears. And that's for ANY question about ANY topic.. Not just how to send a cell phone signal from here to there.

These are the people who have oriented minds to create the most structured and true path that the human race has ever walked. They have enabled unprecedented growth and prosperity of the human race and connected us to one another and to the global consciousness (i.e. the internet) in ways never before achieved or even dreamed of.

To me, this is extremely spiritual and religious. Science and engineering inform our society no matter how much lip service people give to their religion. Science is the new religion of the global humanity. PhD is the new title of the clergy that humanity puts forth to lead them.

That's what I mean by spiritual.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are