A Fair Religion - Page 2

Mortalsfool · 09-28-2007, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamBlue;18192[/QUOTE

Who said agnostic was halfway? You need to read the definition of agnostic as it has nothing to do with halfway. It has to do with facts and knowledge and since it is a fact that we are probably never going to get the knowledge that allows us to believe in a God we are closer to atheist.

I speak for myself! When I call myself halfway, it's because that is where I judge myself to be. All titles are subject to what we get out of it. Some people may consider themselves more atheist, or more devout, I'm devout to a god that I hold somewhat in question.

Mortalsfool · 09-28-2007, 11:54 PM

APOLOGY

I said, "I think that my way is as simple as it can get. Be as good as you can without being stupid.QUOTE]

I guess my apology belongs to WilliamBlue

I am so sorry! Wow! What a summery judgement. I saw myself branded at the town gate as if I attacked people on purpose. Perhaps I did'nt give the word 'stupid' as applied in my comment enough consideration. I never dreamed that it could be, or would, be applied to the author.

I think I well stated that 'it is so easy to be good', to miss it would require a degree of let me call it 'less smarts'.

Trust me when I say that it would be the last thing in the world, for me to call someone's else's opinion. I fully realize that all of our views are only opinions

Astreja · 09-28-2007, 11:55 PM

50% probability? I don't think so. And here's why:

What's the likelihood of there being an entity that can't be detected and doesn't appear to do anything?

There might in fact be something there, but until it leaves unique traces of itself in the physical universe does it actually exist as anything more than an idea?

**WilliamBlue** · 09-29-2007, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortalsfool

APOLOGY

I said, "I think that my way is as simple as it can get. Be as good as you can without being stupid.QUOTE]

I guess my apology belongs to WilliamBlue

I am so sorry! Wow! What a summery judgement. I saw myself branded at the town gate as if I attacked people on purpose. Perhaps I did'nt give the word 'stupid' as applied in my comment enough consideration. I never dreamed that it could be, or would, be applied to the author.

I think I well stated that 'it is so easy to be good', to miss it would require a degree of let me call it 'less smarts'.

Trust me when I say that it would be the last thing in the world, for me to call someone's else's opinion. I fully realize that all of our views are only opinions

Apology accepted, I prefer ignorant anyway

**The An-Jel** · 09-30-2007, 12:12 AM

Good man Williamblue!

I wish I was more amiable

**WilliamBlue** · 09-30-2007, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortalsfool

APOLOGY

I said, "I think that my way is as simple as it can get. Be as good as you can without being stupid.QUOTE]

I guess my apology belongs to WilliamBlue

I am so sorry! Wow! What a summery judgement. I saw myself branded at the town gate as if I attacked people on purpose. Perhaps I did'nt give the word 'stupid' as applied in my comment enough consideration. I never dreamed that it could be, or would, be applied to the author.

I think I well stated that 'it is so easy to be good', to miss it would require a degree of let me call it 'less smarts'.

Trust me when I say that it would be the last thing in the world, for me to call someone's else's opinion. I fully realize that all of our views are only opinions

Well I think you are 'less smart' for believing that there is a 50/50 chance of there being a personal god, and if you do believe that then why not make it %51 and not risk eternal damnation? Sounds to me that you are not an agnostic but a Christian with a crisis of faith, which I can understand being as there is so little proof for a personal god.

Mortalsfool · 10-01-2007, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamBlue

I think you are 'less smart' for believing that there is a 50/50 chance of there being a personal god, and if you do believe that then why not make it %51 and not risk eternal damnation? Sounds to me that you are not an agnostic but a Christian with a crisis of faith, which I can understand being as there is so little proof for a personal god.

You are no doubt quite close when you say I may be a Christian, but it's only because I see no way to ignore the subjective 'evidence' presented in my life; but there is no crisis posed by my agnosticism.

The subjective evidence that sways me toward a belief makes me very Christian like, but doesn't prove anything. Hence, the questioning of agnostics and atheists appears to me as sound practice by those of sound reasoning. Fanatical atheists and fanatical believers extreme in my eyes, especially when they resort to the sort of silly dogmatic phrases used to deride any thing said by someone of different opinion.

Og · 10-01-2007, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamBlue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mortalsfool

A fifty percent probability for there being a God is counter balanced by the preponderance of evidence that weighs on the Nothingness view. The fifty percent for afterlife, stands alone on mankind’s demand that subjective experience be recognized and valued as a possibility; possibilities that imagine the interaction and influence from some Higher Power. In this way man’s unsatisfied reasoning abilities demand that an equal value be imparted to the equation under the name of Hope. No basis of faith could be founded without the other possibility being at least equal in probability considering the lack of evidence on either side.

I don't see it anywhere near a 50/50 proposition especially if you are talking about a personal God. I see plenty of evidence that is against it and very little for. I also say the same for an afterlife. I have had Christians tell me that if I am wrong then I am risking hell and damnation so I should just do it for that reason alone, but that would go against my character and I would also be a hypocrite and if there is a Christian God he would know I was a hypocrite, so it wouldn't work anyway

.
Most of the agnostics I know are atheist when it comes to personal gods and afterlives.

Furthermore, there is a 0% chance that a separate personal individual god exists. This is not the way our universe is constructed. And the notion that 50/50 is the default stance is the same crap that produces pundits in modern news media and gives people the false notion that in order to have discussion, you need 2 idiots with opposite opinions. Probabilities are derived from facts. What facts are you using to define 50/50? The undisprovable claims of theists are, by definition, undefined probability. They have no value.

The notion that 50/50 is the basic stance when lacking any evidence one way or another is absolutely absurd.

**George** · 10-01-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamBlue

I have had Christians tell me that if I am wrong then I am risking hell and damnation so I should just do it for that reason alone,

That argument from Christians is one of the ones that really gets under my skin.

If they'd just take off the faith goggles they'd be able to see the other side to that point. Which is that they could very well be risking squandering the one chance we have to live and enjoy life while finding it's meaning on our own by worshiping a false God and living by that ideology.

Mortalsfool · 10-01-2007, 11:33 PM

I am completly convinced that there is, and will never be, any common ground between theist and atheist. It is unfortunate that none of you have ever had a subjective experience that you can give any credibility. I suppose that it gives you satisfaction enough to know that you are armed with dogmatic phrases that set aside 'all' subjective experiences, holding them not only valueless but worthy of your superior derision. I however, do not hold your opinions in disdane, I merely don't share the same low value system for my own interpratations of subjectivity as you do.