Og

I have never claimed that humans are nothing more than a selfish gene. Humans have evolved a general purpose control system with learning and memory (the brain) that carries out the evolutionary process in a MUCH different manner than the previous genetic approach (which still moves but at a much slower rate).

Furthermore,

Is another example of your unfounded claims.
http://www.agnosticforums.com/god-ta...nterbeing.html
That thread, for example is a clear explanation of the reality of how no things have intrinsic identity. This is fundamental buddhism and makes it clear that any gods that are separate individual identities from you or me or who judge individuals as free moral agents (i.e. yaweh/allah) MUST be false. This is not some big leap. Western gods are for immature minds.

That was my point. There are clear examples of how some god notions are demonstrably false.

That's certainly not a theory that's going to "dissapear" in 100 years as you put it. It's a theory that has been around quite a bit longer than the western notions of monotheistic omnipresent/judgmental deities. Not that that, in itself, has anything to do with its validity.

Its also an expression of the findings of modern neuroscience and the same theory that engineers use to construct that hardware that runs the internet and the PC you're reading this on now.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Melchizedek

Of course Harley,only an idiot would assume there are Gods because there are things in life we dont understand,but I never said we should assume there are Gods because we dont understand things . I said this,which is entirely different

Actually,it would be more reasonable to assume they do exist if you were unsure,since the only argument against intelligent design really is the blind watchmaker,which is nonsense because it requires that humans are selfish,but as Ive shown they are selfless

Then you contradict yourself,look at what you said earlier,the argument you gave against selflessness and think about it. You actually proved my point .Yes I think we are selfless,and I have given reasons for why I think that is,I answered your questions earlier and showed why the argument for kin altruism versus selflessness in humans is nonsense,and Ive not even said all there is to say

Melchizedek

Ok Jap,lets have it,show us the link with that story ?

Melchizedek

You still have not answered my question,again, what are these specific reasons ?

I was talking about another theory,I also believe that some Gods are illusions

Haha , What claims are you talking about ? I have not claimed anything which is unsupported

Im not sure your the right person to be talking about what Buddhism means

duck

This thread is perpetuated by a person that wants to argue for the sake of argument, and obviously with nothing to bring to the table.

I vote :lock:

Og

Could just stop posting in it But yeah, I agree.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Astreja

Not very well at all. I think our fatal flaw might be our tendency to go for short-term gratification. An incredible waste of resources, IMO.
Works for me... This is something I strive for daily. Occasionally I succeed.

SDSJap

Well, if you do this little thing called read, you wouldve already seen the link


so it was shot at 3 times my bad on faulty memory either way, bear shot at twice killed with 3rd shot, was still on the attack.

Melchizedek

Have you not heard that mother cats eat their own young whenever they are imperfect ? Obviously not ! Is it ok for humans to cannabalize their young ? No ! yet your trying to use this example of a cat standing up to a wolf to show that humans cannot act selflessly,your examples are laughable !!! This is an oxymoron

Is this the best you can do ? And out of all the creatures in the world,you can only rely on one,give an example of one,a bear,a last ditch attempt to try and show you are right . Are you so irrational that you actually believe this one example is good enough to dissprove that humans can act selflessly ? If you do then reconsider how you view things,a polite way of saying a number of other things I could say,so keep that in mind before you fly off the handle and decide to insult people in the future !!

Lets examine this nonsense

Now,the hunters were already only a matter of feet away from the entrance to the bears den when the 2nd bear actually attacked, Important point to remember in relevance to the bears psychology,psychology which of course means it will not act selflessly

The bear in the den never came out in the first place,why? Because it was hiding itself,hiding to protect itself ! Now,if the bears actually had the intelligence like humans to try and protect their own despite the dangers,despite the risk of death,then why did the bear hiding in the den not rush out in the first place once the other bear was shot and try to outflank the hunters ? Or try to revive the other bear,try to help it ?

Exactly,bears have a thick layer of fat,chances are the bear never felt the bullet in much the same way as a man wont feel a knife entering him while his adrenaline is pumping. Everyone Ive spoken to who has been stabbed says the same thing,that they thought they had been punched,not stabbed,this is because of adrenaline,and other creatures are no different. The bears territory had been invaded,it knew there was danger,although it was too stupid to realize the extent of that danger,it was full of adrenaline and charged

And,not all bears know what guns are,chances are this bear had no idea what the man was holding could end its life,otherwise it would have fled !! My point is that bears used to hunters with guns and the threat they pose do no not charge and attack,they run away

Think about what you are saying,the other bear lays dead outside the den,and another rushes from the inside the den den to attack the men,thats because it is not as intelligent as us,not intelligent enough to say "God,they just shot one of my family,I best avoid this confrontation and deal with it another way" . Anything but stupidly run at the person who is armed and will shoot again, your ideas are preposterous,haha

There you go,two bears dead,not one,but both,because both were as stupid as each other ! The bear in the den obviously never understood the extent of the danger,yes,it had been shot and continued to attack,but for the reasons I outlined .And another thing,what about all the countless other examples of bears actually fleeing when they have been shot at even though they have young with them ? You dont mention that do you,because naturally it will make your claims seem ridiculous,which they are

Humans are naturally selfish thats true,and a good thing they are,since it drives us to succeed,and survive,etc. But my point is that they are the only animal which has the capacity to act selflessly,selflessness exists in humans

jaej

True altruism is a myth, in any creature. Think about it. No one does anything out of pure selflessness. NO ONE. It's impossible.

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