what are ghosts ?

phidelis07 · 07-23-2007, 02:46 AM

Are ghost the imagination creating something that isn't there ? Are they mass hallucinations or are they real ? Your thoughts ?

Gettin' In Tune · 07-23-2007, 03:53 PM

I dunno....

But by watching the The Mothman Prophecies made me contemplate if sentient creators can live outside the the human dimension; the 4 dimension of space and time curvature.

Personally, I don't believe in ghosts.

Unbeliever · 07-23-2007, 04:34 PM

If ghosts can be seen, or photographed, then they must be in some way physical, instead of purely supernatural, since, in order to be seen they must either emit or reflect photons, which are physical.

sisterX · 07-23-2007, 06:21 PM

Hi, interesting topic. Well in Islam, the quran tells us about other creations of God called jinn, this where the word genie originates from. Jinn are creatures in another unseen dimension. They are able to take physical form by possesing humans and physical objects. That is why you get ghosts who move furniture and other objects around. Jinn are intelligent beings who also face judgement from God. So i believe ghosts are basically Jinn.

phidelis07 · 07-23-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

if ghosts can be seen, or photographed, then they must be in some way physical, instead of purely supernatural, since, in order to be seen they must either emit or reflect photons, which are physical.

Depending on who you talk photographic evidence is a viable way to prove existence of ghost. If you believe them then they must exist in a physical form as you suggest. Would you concede that they are a form of energy ? And are they sentient ?

Unbeliever · 07-23-2007, 07:07 PM

I don't concede that they exist at all, energy or otherwise. But I can discuss them without believing in them, which, according to Aristotle, is the mark of an educated man.

Og · 07-23-2007, 07:08 PM

I know these people who actually see demons perching on their foot boards and chests of drawers as they goto sleep. They have meaningful interactions with these things. They then take their anti-psychotic medicine and their brain is altered such that they can no longer see these things.

For all of human history, we had no idea about the nature of schizophrenia. We had no idea about many facts of nature. For virtually all of recorded history except the last 200 years or so, we had no idea that this might be a phenomena internal to the human's mind.

This is just one thing about the nature of reality that we were very ignorant about. And we wrote stories and developed systems to try to comprehend things that scared us during the dark nights where only a little candle light would shine.

And when the realization of the wild behaviors of the brain came within the realm of human understanding, people still want to give value to the things that minds thought up and formed to match their reality.

For all of human history, people would see demons and spirits just as john nash did in that recent movie "a beautiful mind." People interacted with components of their psyche in a wild way disconnected from the confines of physical reality... They can do this because, just like in a modern computer, the world that is experienced is ONLY a representation.

Knowing what we know about the human brain and the things it is capable of and persisting with the notion that things like djinn and ghosts exist is to profess ignorance on the topic. You're better off remaining quiet.

pseudonous · 07-23-2007, 08:08 PM

I was just reading about djinn the other day. In pre-islamic times they were nature spirts capable of driving people mad. Perhaps the corrolation between the mad and the djinn was always recognized.

Unbeliever · 07-23-2007, 09:04 PM

It seems a similar correlation was understood between madness and prophecy in the OT.

In my opinion, it wasn't the jinns that drove people mad, but only the mad that experienced jinns in the first place.

But madness has been associated with god-contact in every culture, I think.

phidelis07 · 07-23-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Knowing what we know about the human brain and the things it is capable of and persisting with the notion that things like djinn and ghosts exist is to profess ignorance on the topic. You're better off remaining quiet.

I never insisted that ghosts exist, my question was to see other's view on them.

You make a pretty grand assumption in saying that ghosts are hallucinations from schizophrenia. For one most hallucinations from schizophrenia are auditory and not visual. Very rarely do visual hallucinations accompany auditory hallucinations. Secondly to attribute all sightings to schizophrenia is limiting other causes. There are a myriad of ways to alter one's perception aside from mental illness, including drugs, dehydration and starvation.

How is it you know that all sightings are internal ? Are you saying that everyone who has ever seen a ghost has been under and internal influence ? We know so little about this universe. If it is possible for 11 dimensions then it is totally possible other beings may inhabit said dimensions. At this moment we only really observe four. Or there may be beings that live out of phase, and it is possible for them to phase in, and phase out at will. I think there is something behind it all, and with the vast number of sightings it is arrogant to assume there was one culprit behind it all.