Originally Posted by romansh

once and for all the ego dies?

Originally Posted by Og

What do you mean by "metaphysical?"* I thought that's what I was commenting on. Ego is an illusion.* Self is an illusion.* You can't lose these things or have them come to a finale or have them move into some other realm or form when they didn't exist in the first place.

Originally Posted by debdodd

I guess I just don't understand what you are talking about when it comes to "illusion" .... if self is an illusion then are you saying we do not exist? that existing is an illusion .... that we/me/you don't exist that existence is an illusion .... eek such convoluted thought is making my head spin .... I don't understand what you are saying at all .... philosophy class had my head spinning the same way at times ...

I believe I exist .... I believe when life is over I die and no longer exist ... in my dimension in the here and now I am here ... I can't wrap my head around extrapolated thoughts of that I am only a figment of my imagination .... if you could "dummy down" for me I'd appreciate it ... pretend I'm one of those "no child left behind" kind of kids ... use little words please
Thanks, Deb

Originally Posted by Og

Let me rephrase.* The notion of an absolute boundary that contains YOU where you can say "inside this is my self and outside this is the rest of the world" is an illusion.
Why is that? I mean there is an "I" a being and then there is a "you" and a bunch of other "them" in the world ... they coexist with us ... when an "I" or "you" stop existing there are still "others" in the world ... I don't get what the illusion of that inside/outside means ....

It's like I was conveying in my "interbeing" thread (you can search it).
what is the thread title?*

A table or flower has no intrinsic identity.* It is constructed entirely of parts that are NOT it.* There is nothing intrinsically table or flower about them.* Just as this is the case with the flower, there is no intrinsic identity (ultimate soul) to yourself.* You are, just as the flower, a blossom of the world and the community you live in.* If your community is crap, you are crap.* If your community is beautiful, you are beautiful.* If your community is beautiful on the surface but rotten on the inside, then that is what you reflect.* And conversely, your environment is a reflection of you.
I get how I am a reflection of my environment but a table or chair, while it has a use it has no ability to think on it's own ... it is inanimate and unless we utilize the table/chair/etc ... it just is "there" until it dry rots, falls apart or whatever ... where as a human can move about, make choices, etc ....

You are not some poor soul trapped in a robot. true You are a bloom of the universe and identical with the universe.
how am I identical to/with the universe?

Just as my little avatar illustrates a tornado as a complex confluence of meteorological events, you are a complex confluence of biochemical and social events!
yes I am a that and that I understand this portion

The notion that your fundamental self has an end is just plain wrong.
why? this I don't get .... once I am no longer in this plane of existence how can there not be an end? how does one go on, except in memories of others or DNA we leave behind? my fundamental self is gone, cremated or rotting in a box, I don't believe we are little "sparks" of soul or matter floating about the world .... once we have a physical death the biological portion of us is no longer ... I don't believe in reincarnation so I can't wrap my head around that our "fundamental self has an end is just plain wrong" if we are no longer alive what is there after that process?

Of course your senses will stop working and your current body will no longer retain the memories it built up over its life.* But how can something with no intrinsic identity come to an end?
what do you mean by intrinsic identity?

It doesn't have a beginning in the first place!
what doesn't have a beginning? conception is a beginning ..... death is an end ...