phidelis07

I refuse to be complacent in the unknown. I still strive and search for the truth, whether it be a final death or an afterlife. I want to know the honest truth. One of these ways i think is the occult. To me it would make sense if one were to try spells and magic which produces verifiable results then one might conclude things of a supernatural order exist. Obviously one has to come into the situation without bias. It would be extremely easy to mistake coincedence with a real result, but i feel if one can come unbiased than it might be a viable way to test for the paranormal. Thoughts ?

Astreja

Over the last thirty years or so, I've explored two small areas of the vast occult wilderness: Gardnerian/Enochian formal ceremonial magic (e.g. Golden Dawn) and shamanistic impromptu magic (e.g. seiðr). I've achieved satisfactory results with both, but prefer the "make it up as you go along" approach to the formal schools.

In my experience, accurate and steady visualization and intense emotion are the two wings that make magic fly. However, both the visualization and the emotions are things of the physical body, and they combine in our physical brains rather than in some supernatural ether. I'm inclined to think that "magic" is a high-order natural process rather than something belonging to some ill-defined other world.

The explanation that makes the most sense to me: The nervous systems of our bodies are electrochemical in nature. And, just as one can use a magnet to induce a current in a wire, the electromagnetic fields that we produce can and do affect our surroundings.

Overall, I don't think that magic is capable of revealing any non-natural worlds to us. IMO, all existing worlds are natural.

phidelis07

can you please expound upon you're answer please ?

Astreja

Simply put... If magic works (and I have anecdotal evidence that it does work, under the right conditions), it is because it's a previously unexplained function of the mind.

In other words... There is no such thing as "supernatural", only more and more complex forms of "natural". Think of music's relation to the electromagnetic spectrum: Every octave, the frequency doubles. If you focus the mind and imbue it with sufficient energy, it becomes capable of extraordinary things -- But it's a normal function that we'll eventually be able to explain.

phidelis07

can you give me an example of how magic has worked in the past

Jacob

The unexplained being misunderstood as magic makes sense to me.

Jacob

Og

"One man's magic is another man's engineering"
-Robert Heinlein

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Astreja

Well, in my Golden Dawn days (late 70's/early 80's) I was eagerly anticipating a total solar eclipse. The long-range forecast for Winnipeg for February 26, 1979 was not at all promising, and the immediate weather had been unrelentingly overcast. As it was extremely important to me that I see this eclipse with my own eyes, I decided to take matters into my own hands.

I did some researching in my library, then used a combination of tattva symbolism and western occult symbolism to craft a paper amulet. In an intense period of meditation I then "charged" it, then continued to reactivate the idea in my mind whenever possible.

At 9 p.m. the night before the eclipse, the first break in the clouds appeared. I was just returning to my apartment, and felt an indescribable thrill as I looked up and saw stars beyond the clouds.

The following morning, the sky above Winnipeg was clear from horizon to horizon, and remained so for the duration of the eclipse. Which was spectacularly beautiful.

phidelis07

You mentioned magic being rooted in the natural world. How could you make something manifest by your mind without something outside of the natural ? Also how possible is it that all of this was coincedence

Astreja

Excellent questions.

1. How could you make something manifest by your mind without something outside of the natural?
   
   My mind is part of the natural world. Its activity generates an electrical field, as do the minds of others. Electrical stimulation of the brain from outside creates artificial sensations within. I think it very likely that this operation can go inside-out as well; in other words, my internal thoughts can affect the electromagnetic field outside my body.
   
   The clouds over Winnipeg in February 1979 are also natural and subject to manipulation by physical forces such as sun and wind.
   
   The big question here is, how could the mind of one person affect something as "big" as the weather over an entire city? Answer: If it was just me doing this, then the effect would probably have been imperceptible. However, in that particular time and place, literally thousands of people in close proximity wanted exactly what I wanted -- A break in the weather.
   
2. Also how possible is it that all of this was coincidence?
   
   Entirely within the realm of probability that this was no more than coincidence.