Religion: more good or more bad?

411314 · 07-01-2007, 06:03 PM

I've read some arguments between non-religous atheists and religous theists as to weather religion has done "more good then bad" or "more bad then good". I wondered what you guys thought.

Aaron · 07-01-2007, 08:04 PM

More bad than good.

**debdodd** · 07-01-2007, 08:51 PM

agreed ... religion has caused more problems than anythng.

alexie · 07-01-2007, 10:49 PM

HMMM, "agreed ... religion has caused more problems than anythng."

As a person of faith i agree. That man made religions have caused problems.
But athiesm is now causing more problems.

Athiests and Christian haters will usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might have heard of to show deaths by Christianity but in none of their examples can they come up with a million deaths. (Some scholars used to teach that the Thirty Years’ War in Germany resulted in 8 million deaths, but modern scholars have demonstrated it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.) I then point out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular ideologies. I then ask them who is the “baddest” of them all. Most guess Hitler. Some even say he was a Christian but he was not a follower of Jesus and I ask any to show clear evidence.I then tell them that he is rated #3. Some then guess Stalin and I inform them that most scholars place him at #2 with 20 million killed. Almost no one gets #1 who, of course, is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. I then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical proponent of Social Darwinism. All of these ideologies are based on atheistic systems.
Atheist Richard Dawkins, writing in his new book, “The God Delusion,” claims that many of the world’s conflicts around the world are due to the murderous religious impulses. Columnist Robert Kuttner claims that “The Crusades slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries.”

Dinesh D’Souza, a Fellow at the Hoover Institution recently pointed out the glaring errors in such statements in the Christian Science Monitor. He noted, for example, that the Spanish Inquisition sentenced to death approximately 10,000 individuals. Some historians claim another 100,000 died in jail.

One of liberalism’s favorite anti-Christian boogeyman is the Salem witch trials. How many actually died as a result of those trials: fewer than 25.

And what of the Crusades? Most Americans probably have a negative view of the Crusades as an attempt by Christians to conquer peaceful Muslims. The opposite is true. British historian Paul Johnson has observed: “The Crusades, far from being an outrageous prototype of Western imperialism, as taught in most schools, were a mere episode in a struggle that lasted 1,400 years, and were one of the few occasions when Christians took the offensive to regain ‘occupied territories’ of the Holy Land.” The Crusades were launched to regain land conquered by Muslims and to prevent Muslim armies from invading and conquering any more nations! It was a defensive war against Muslim imperialism.

The Christian-haters should turn their attentions to militant Islam and Atheism as the most serious dangers to the world.

The fact is that while religious wars have been fought for centuries, militant atheism has slaughtered more people than religious zealots ever have. The greatest mass murders in history have been committed not by Christians but by Communists Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung. More than 100 million have died at the hands of these militant atheists since the early 20th century.

And, one of the first genocides committed in the 20th century was by Turkish Muslims against Armenians between 1915 and 1918. An estimated 1.5 million Christian Armenians were killed during that slaughter.

Elton John, Robert Kuttner, Richard Dawkins and others may want to do more fact-checking before they launch into new tirades against Christianity.

The fact is that Christians have been at the forefront of expanding and defending human freedom around the globe ever since the First Century Church was founded. Christians, for example, were the ones who campaigned against the gladiator games in ancient Rome as well as against the slave trade in Britain and in the United States. It has been our Christian compassion that has led us into wars around the world to defend the downtrodden and to preserve freedom for individuals. (Alvin J. Schmidt, Ph.D., clearly explains this in his excellent history book, “How Christianity Changed The World.”)

alexie

duck · 07-02-2007, 12:50 AM

And here we go, again. le sigh.

"Militant Atheism" ??? I truly, honestly, do not believe that such a thing exists, and if it does it is such a small thing as to not be a great issue.

I personally fear militant christians more. Sorry.

**George** · 07-02-2007, 06:15 AM

Every war can be traced back to having religion either be the cause of it or religion being used to justify it.

**The An-Jel** · 07-02-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexie

HMMM, "agreed ... religion has caused more problems than anythng."

As a person of faith i agree. That man made religions have caused problems.
But athiesm is now causing more problems.

Athiests and Christian haters will usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might have heard of to show deaths by Christianity but in none of their examples can they come up with a million deaths. (Some scholars used to teach that the Thirty Years’ War in Germany resulted in 8 million deaths, but modern scholars have demonstrated it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.) I then point out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular ideologies. I then ask them who is the “baddest” of them all. Most guess Hitler. Some even say he was a Christian but he was not a follower of Jesus and I ask any to show clear evidence.I then tell them that he is rated #3. Some then guess Stalin and I inform them that most scholars place him at #2 with 20 million killed. Almost no one gets #1 who, of course, is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. I then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical proponent of Social Darwinism. All of these ideologies are based on atheistic systems.
Atheist Richard Dawkins, writing in his new book, “The God Delusion,” claims that many of the world’s conflicts around the world are due to the murderous religious impulses. Columnist Robert Kuttner claims that “The Crusades slaughtered millions in the name of Jesus. The Inquisition brought the torture and murder of millions more. After Martin Luther, Christians did bloody battle with other Christians for another three centuries.”

Dinesh D’Souza, a Fellow at the Hoover Institution recently pointed out the glaring errors in such statements in the Christian Science Monitor. He noted, for example, that the Spanish Inquisition sentenced to death approximately 10,000 individuals. Some historians claim another 100,000 died in jail.

One of liberalism’s favorite anti-Christian boogeyman is the Salem witch trials. How many actually died as a result of those trials: fewer than 25.

And what of the Crusades? Most Americans probably have a negative view of the Crusades as an attempt by Christians to conquer peaceful Muslims. The opposite is true. British historian Paul Johnson has observed: “The Crusades, far from being an outrageous prototype of Western imperialism, as taught in most schools, were a mere episode in a struggle that lasted 1,400 years, and were one of the few occasions when Christians took the offensive to regain ‘occupied territories’ of the Holy Land.” The Crusades were launched to regain land conquered by Muslims and to prevent Muslim armies from invading and conquering any more nations! It was a defensive war against Muslim imperialism.

The Christian-haters should turn their attentions to militant Islam and Atheism as the most serious dangers to the world.

The fact is that while religious wars have been fought for centuries, militant atheism has slaughtered more people than religious zealots ever have. The greatest mass murders in history have been committed not by Christians but by Communists Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung. More than 100 million have died at the hands of these militant atheists since the early 20th century.

And, one of the first genocides committed in the 20th century was by Turkish Muslims against Armenians between 1915 and 1918. An estimated 1.5 million Christian Armenians were killed during that slaughter.

Elton John, Robert Kuttner, Richard Dawkins and others may want to do more fact-checking before they launch into new tirades against Christianity.

The fact is that Christians have been at the forefront of expanding and defending human freedom around the globe ever since the First Century Church was founded. Christians, for example, were the ones who campaigned against the gladiator games in ancient Rome as well as against the slave trade in Britain and in the United States. It has been our Christian compassion that has led us into wars around the world to defend the downtrodden and to preserve freedom for individuals. (Alvin J. Schmidt, Ph.D., clearly explains this in his excellent history book, “How Christianity Changed The World.”)

alexie

Communist=Atheist? Wow that is an interesting comparison. Funny stuff... Mao was buried under the Red Sun if I read right.

http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.o...ticulars.shtml

Ever heard of Taoism? You can call it an Atheist approach or whatever religious folk do... read on dude. Get your facts straight and quit leaning on religious folks to prove your point. They mean nothing here as we are seeking the Truth not the Bias of Religious Persecutors. You can HATE other peoples FAITHS and call them HERETIC. They do the same to you!

Mao wasn't a nice guy but you are using him for something else entirely here.

sisterX · 07-02-2007, 04:51 PM

George, Hitler thought he was giving natural selection a helping hand by cleaning out the 'bad blood'. What does that have to do with religion?

jaej · 07-02-2007, 06:52 PM

Hitler was prejudiced against pretty much everybody except white protestants. The two biggest groups of people he killed were jews and catholics.

And I would be more inclined to believe a 'secular' source than a christian one that clearly has an agenda.

Aaron · 07-02-2007, 09:24 PM

See? Religion has started an argument. I rest my case. Hark, hark, harr.