niranjan

We all make mistakes, and we correct ourselves. The mistakes of hinduism , which are really superstitions, are a great blot indeed, and a perversion of justice and righteousness, which hinduism is supposed to safeguard.And I have stated this before. However we indeed had rectified these errors through our reformers, and that indeed is a very good thing.

I too am a so-called untouchable, and I am proud to say that hindu enlightened masters from my caste along with scholars, fought successfully against the evils of caste discrimination successfully, and strengthened justice and righteousness.

This was done by hindus themselves.

The Hindu prophet Swami Vivekananda has also stated that all those scriptures that do not agree with reason , should be rejected.

A lot of defects in hinduism, which had crept with time, had been eradicated in hinduism, and are still being successfully eradicated.

At least hinduism has reformed itself. Where has islam reformed itself in any way. It is still the same as it was in the 7th century A.D. , with the outdated shariat, polygamy, burqa,islamic terrorists and other crap. Sheesh.

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

niranjan

Persecution of the Bahais by Islamic fundamentalists


Numerous atrocities were committed on the Bahais themselves by Islamic fanatics, supported by the Islamic government itself.


(from the wikipedia)

As the result of the Báb's execution in 1850 by a firing squad in Tabriz, an assassination attempt was instigated on the King of Persia, Nasser-al-Din Shah, two years later by a handful of angry Bábís. Although the assassins claimed they were working alone, the entire Bábí community was blamed, and a slaughter of several thousand Bábís followed. Many of the Bábís who were not killed, including Bahá'u'lláh, were imprisoned in the Síyáh-Chál (Black Pit), an underground dungeon of Tehran. Bahá'u'lláh himself was found to be innocent of complicity in the assassination plot, but remained in the Síyáh-Chál over four months.


An Austrian officer, Captain von Goumoens, working in the court of the Shah at the time, gave the following account after signing his resignation:

"[I saw] ones who, with gouged-out eyes, must eat, on the scene of the deed, their own amputated ears; or whose teeth are torn out with inhuman violence by the hand of the executioner; or whose bare skulls are simply crushed by blows from a hammer..." "As for the end itself, they hang the scorched and perforated bodies by their hands and feet to a tree head downwards, and now every Persian may try his marksmanship to his heart’s content... When I read over again, what I have written, I am overcome by the thought that those who are with you in our dearly beloved Austria may doubt the full truth of the picture, and accuse me of exaggeration. Would to God that I had not lived to see it!... At present I never leave my house, in order not to meet with fresh scenes of horror... I will no longer maintain my connection with the scene of such crimes.”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bah%C3%A1'%C3%ADs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27u%27ll%C3%A1h

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

niranjan

Posting an article that shows how Baha'is are being targeted in Iran by various groups in education as well as in business...this is evidence of a general concerted effort to put pressure on Baha'is and violates their rights under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights...

Everyone should deplore this heinous acts committed against the bahais. I hope all those who read this urge their government to pressurize the Iranian government to stop perpetrating excesses against the Bahais, and not to violate their human rights.


Here's the article:

http://www.bahai.org/persecution/iran/update

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

niranjan

New reports of harassment in Iran:
Baha'i schoolchildren in Iran increasingly harassed and abused by school authorities

NEW YORK, 5 April 2007 (BWNS) --

Baha'i students in primary and secondary schools throughout Iran are increasingly being harassed, vilified, and held up to abuse, according to recent reports from inside the country.
During a 30-day period from mid-January to mid-February, some 150 incidents of insults, mistreatment, and even physical violence by school authorities against Baha'i students were reported as occurring in at least 10 Iranian cities.

"These new reports that the most vulnerable members of the Iranian Baha'i community -- children and junior youth -- are being harassed, degraded, and, in at least one case, blindfolded and beaten, is an extremely disturbing development," said Bani Dugal, the principal representative of the Baha'i International Community to the United Nations.

"The increasing number of such incidents suggests a serious and shameful escalation in the ongoing persecution of Iranian Baha'is," said Ms. Dugal. "The fact that school-aged children are being targeted by those who should rightfully hold their trust -- teachers and school administrators -- only makes this latest trend even more ominous."

Ms. Dugal said the Baha'i International Community has been aware of scattered reports of abuse directed at schoolchildren but has only recently learned that young Baha'is are now widely being forced to identify their religion -- and are also being insulted, degraded, threatened with expulsion, and, in some cases, summarily dismissed from school.

"They are also being pressured to convert to Islam, required to endure slander of their faith by religious instructors, and being taught and tested on 'Iranian history' in authorized texts that denigrate, distort, and brazenly falsify their religious heritage," said Ms. Dugal. "They are also being repeatedly told that they are not to attempt to teach their religion."

According to Ms. Dugal, one Baha'i has reported that the school-age children of a relative in Kermanshah were called to the front of the classroom, where they were required to listen to insults against the Faith.

"Another student, accepted at an art institute, has been followed by the authorities and on three occasions seized, blindfolded, and beaten," said Ms. Dugal.

"While a few of these may be isolated attacks, the extent and nature of this reprehensible activity has led the Baha'is in Iran to conclude that this is an organized effort," said Ms. Dugal.

Of special concern, she added, was the fact that a high proportion of the attacks against high school students have been against girls.
"While the attacks reported to have taken place in elementary and middle schools were leveled evenly against boys and girls, those at the high school level targeted girls to a far greater degree: of 76 incidents, 68 were against Baha'i girls," said Ms. Dugal.

Ms. Dugal added that the ages of the children and junior youth affected are as follows: at the elementary school level, grades 1-5, students 6 to 11 years old; at the middle school level, grades 6-8, students 11 to 13 years old; and at the high school level, grades 9-12, students 14 to 17 years old.
The reports of attacks on innocent Baha'i schoolchildren come at a time when a growing number of older Baha'i students seeking to enter Iranian universities have been expelled after being identified as Baha'is.
So far this year, at least 94 college-age Baha'i students have been expelled from institutions of higher education. That figure is up from 70 as reported in late February.

Since the Islamic Republic of Iran was established in 1979, the 300,000-member Iranian Baha'i community has faced ongoing and systematic persecution. In the early 1980s, more than 200 Baha'is were killed, hundreds were imprisoned, and thousands were deprived of jobs and education.
At the present time, more than 120 Baha'is are out on bail and awaiting trial on false charges, solely because of their religious beliefs and activities. Over the last year, as well, international human rights groups have expressed concern at the Iranian government's efforts to step-up their covert monitoring and identification of Baha'is.

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

niranjan

A new report on religious liberty in Iran was released in September 2006 from the United States Department of State "International Religious Freedom" has been released and can found at

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2006/71421.htm

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

sisterX

I didnt read any of that stuff to do with the bahai people, since it has nothing to do with the Quran.

Oh so hinduism has reformed and revived itself? Why did the works of these 'prophets' need reforming? That just says the divine religion was flawed and needed 'perfectng' by mere humans.

I dont think the racist caste system has been entirely eradicate either. Maybe on paper, but tell that to the thousands of Hindu 'Untouchables' who are converting to Christianity and Islam every year just to get a little respect as the human beings that they are.

It's Ok for you, you live in the west where you seen as just another human being but these poor people who get the raw deal in India, having to do the dirtiest Jobs and not being able to marry who they like.

Say all you like about Muslims but Islam allows no such racism Muhammed said "No Arab is better than a non-Arab and vice versa, neither is a white man better that a black man and vice versa. He also preached the freeing of slaves and would spend vast amounts of money himself just to buy slaves from others in order to free them.

I dont agree with the targetting of the bahai I think they auht to be educated about Islam and the so called new prophet should be exposed as a liar and a cheat, which is what he is.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

niranjan

But it definetely has something to do with suffering humanity and mankind, my 'bad girl'.



Because the works of the prophets , the rishis, were flawed by the power hungry brahmins.


The caste system is not racist. There is no racial difference at all between the castes in India. I am from the so-called untouchable caste myself , but I have seen upper castes and brahmins, of the same skin colour and much darker than me as well, many times , all over India. There is no racism at all, just feudalism.

Most of these guys convert to Buddhism. A few convert to christianity, and none convert to Islam.This is because the so-called caste system exists in christianity and islam too in India .

Ambedar, the icon of the untouchables, was highly critical of islam, due to its narrow minded view of things, its dogmatism , fanaticism and intolerance towards other religions and institution of slavery. He therefore decided to convert to Buddhism, as Buddhism has the same culture,teachings and ideals of hinduism, minus the caste system.

However hindu enlightened masters from the lower castes themselves have fought successfully against the evils of the caste system, and propagated the real teachings of HInduism and hence due to this the vast majority of hindus in lower castes are loyal to hinduism. Many of those who have converted to other religions have themselves come of their own free will to hinduism back again. Currently, all hindu organisations are working to eradicate the remnants of the evils of the caste system in India and create a progressive vedic society, blended with modernism, and the best of other cultures.




Well, excuse me , but I am living in India itself. I have never been to the west.

And most of the so-called shudras and untouchables have a lot of work for themselves like farming and stuff. I didn't know that farming was a dirty job in Islam. Islam really amazes me.

All work is dignified, and not at all worthy of contempt. There have been shudra and dalit physicians, scholars, warriors and kings as well in India.

Also the Indian constitution has banned the caste system ,and anyone can choose the job he wants.

The constitution, which has been framed by Ambedkar himself, gives the lower castes reservations in educational institutions and public sector jobs, and hence many shudra and dalits have become well-educated and affluent and in a higher class of society.

And they can also marry anyone they like .The constitution allows them to do so.

The arya samaj, a hindu organisation based on the vedas, does not sanction the caste system, and promotes inter-caste marriages. As a result intercaste marriages are rampant in India. This is also done by the other hindu spiritual organisations.

My own relatives have married upper caste people,with the whole -hearted sanction and support of hindu spiritual organisations, and also with many of my friends as well.



And I also know that he is a slave-owner who owned poor innocent ladies whose husbands were slaughtered by muhammad, and also that he sold slaves as well.


I have gone through both Muhammads and Bahaullahs teachings and I am convinced that Bahaullah is head and shoulders ahead of muhammad . Muhammad is nothing at all in comparison to the noble bahaullah. In fact, considering Muhammads legacy of great bloodshed, suffering, rape and torture, I would put muhammad in the same league as Hitler, Mao and Stalin.


Here is a quote on Muhammad by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the father of modern Turkey.......


"Islam, this theology of an immoral Arab, is a dead thing."

And Ataturk is credited by history with reviving Turkey from being 'the sick man of Europe' , to being a progressive, modern,strong, rebublican and democratic state, devoted to science and humanism.

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

sisterX

Muhammed is in the same league as hitler heh? I guess thats why Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

You say Muhammed oppressed women you could not further from the truth. Muhammed was telling women of Arabia of their rights as women and human beings at the same time high preists in Europe were discussion whether a woman was a human being or not!

If Hinduism is soooo Good for women and the rights why is it that today,

If a woman was widowed, she would always have to wear a white sari (costume), eat vegetarian meals, cut her hair short, and never re-marry.
The bride always had to pay the dowry (bridal money) to the husband's family.
And the husband could ask for anything, irrespective of whether the bride would have difficulty giving it.

Not only that, if after marriage she was not able to pay the full dowry she would be both emotionally and physically tortured, and could end up being a victim of "kitchen death" where the husband, or both the mother-in-law and the husband try to set fire to the wife while she is cooking or is in the kitchen, and try to make it look like an accidental death. More and more of these instances are taking place.
In addition to all this, men in Hinduism are treated literally as among the gods.

Muslim women have the right to inheritance. They have the right to run their own trade and business. They have the full right to ownership, property, disposal over their wealth to which the husband has no right. They have the right to education, a right to refuse marriage as long as this refusal is according to reasonable and justifiable grounds. The Quran itself, which is the word of Allah, contains many verses commanding men to be kind to their wives and stressing the rights of women. Islam gives the right set of rules, because they are NOT made by men, but made by Allah; hence it is a perfect religion.

I'd rather be MUSLIM any day.
Oh and maybe you aught to go to the west for a while, learn a bit of the tolerance which you so lack.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

niranjan

The bahai religion is the fastest growing religion on earth. Only islamic propagandists claim that islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. I know of muslims who have converted to other religions as well.

And as for muhammad being in the same league as Hitler, Nazism too had millions of adherents and there are neonaziis even now as well.


And the quran also tells the husband to beat his wife , if she shows disobedience. It also proclaims the husband superior to the wife.

And I also know that Islam allows the man to marry 4 women at least, and have sex with all of them.

He can also divorce any of them at will, by saming the magic word, talaq.






Hindu widows have remarried. The Hindu emperor Vikramaditya, married his brothers widow.

The arya samaj , the hindu organisation based on the vedas, sanctions widow remarriages, and is against the dowry system, both for men or women.. All these way before the constitution gave rights to hindu women, through the efforts of hindu reformers.

And while some hindu widows wore a white sari and stuff, many others took an active social and political role. like Durgavati, the heroine of the 1857 first war of independence Rani Laxmi BAi.,ahalya bai, and many other widows as well.

And the hindu laws have been reformed by hindu reformers, and which gives the same rights to women as it is to men.

The dowry system is banned in hindu laws, and anyone asking for dowry can be prosecuted and arrested. Many who abused their wives over this has been arrested and severely punished.

HIndu women are allowed to remarry, divorce at will, inherirt property, given equal wages, and stuff. We have many hindu women who are doctors, engineers, architects, entrepeneurs, police officers and stuff.

Polygamy is strictly banned, and hindu men who marry twice are arrested and prosecuted. Not so with muslim men, who marry 4 times and do talaq and paedophilia and stuff.


Hindu women in India have become ministers, member of parliaments, chief ministers, governors, and the prime minister too ( Indira Gandhi )

I recently read in the newspapers of a muslim woman minister in pakistan who was shot dead brutally by islamic terrorists , on the grounds that islam forbids woman rulers. And I very well know the pathetic condition of women in Islam.

Many muslim women were killed in honour killings by their own family , for daring to fall in love with someone else of other sects or religions. I have read many of their stories with horror.




And look who is talking of tolerance. You insulted my religion and the bahai prophet as well and western people and and their beliefs. Islam is clearly stated by westerners themselves as the most intolerant ideology on earth.


Since you think Islam is so good to women, I would like to ask you a question.


You see, I have a lover, and she is very possessive of me, and gets visibly annoyed if I talk about other good looking women even casually.


We both know that Islam allows the man to marry more than once,. and many muslims all over the world has more than one, two ,three wives.

And I am really wondering how muslim women can be so selfdenying.

Since I see that my lover and most women are quite possessive of their lovers and husbands, I would like to know what would your reaction be if your husband marries a beautiful young girl according to islamic law, and has steamy, passionate sex with her, his second wife coupled with naughty giggles and moans of pleasure.

Would you, in true islamic spirit, applaud them, and urge them to keep it up !!!

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

sisterX

Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. The negative image presented in the west about polygamy in Islam is no more than fantasies and has nothing to do with reality.

God has created us and He knows our nature better than we know ourselves. There are many reasns why polygamy is allowed in islam, the shortage of men being one of them.

Allowing polygamy is the way God had offered humanity as the most practical answer for this problem. But there are also rules to this practice.

Mankind has practiced polygamy for thousands of years.

In the Hindu scriptures, there is no restriction on the number of wives. In fact, many Hindu religious personalities, according to the Hindu scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives.

It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act in India was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife.

Many Central and South American tribes such as the Aztecs and the Mayans have practiced this custom for thousand of years and kept it till today.

The same cases also exist in many African tribes.

Before Moses (peace be up on him) first law, polygamy as well as concubinage were among the mores or customs of the ancient Hebrew people (See Genesis 16:1-4 and 29:23-28).

The Old Testament and Rabbinic writings frequently attest to the legality of polygamy. King Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3) Also, King David is said to have had many wives and concubines (2 Samuel 5:13).

According to the Old Testament, God has sat the rule as to how to distribute the property of a man among his sons from different wives, even though the man had loved one and hated the other (Deut. 21:15-17) [3].

Another rule to organize polygamy was the ban on taking a wife's sister as a rival wife (Lev. 18:18) [4].

The Greco-Roman culture have had their own "custom" where men were "officially" monogamous but owned many slaves who were free for them to use: in other words, "unofficial polygamy".

Pagans in Arabia at the time of Muhammad (peace be up on him) did not have any limits on the number of wives, men could take as many wives as they wished.

The Quran, contrary to all other scriptures, limited the maximum number of wives to four under the strict condition of treating the wives equally and justly. Some may think that it is a common sense that man should treat all his wives equally and justly, yet all other religions teach that you should not kill for example. If these religions depended only on common sense then there would have been no need to teach that you should not kill, since it calls for even less common sense not to kill another person.

The Qur'ân is the only religious book, on the face of this Earth, that contains the command; ‘marry only one’. There is no other religious book that instructs men who could not fulfill the conditions of being fair and just to their wives to have only one wife

The Qur'an and the Shariaa -the Islamic law, make it even harder not easier on man to have more than one wife. They stipulate that a man is responsible for the maintenance of his wife or wives. If a man has more than one wife, he has to provide separate living accommodation for each of his wives. The woman is not obliged to spend on herself even if she is rich. Nor is she obliged to work to share in the family expenses. If a man could not support more than one wife, then he could not marry another one. No other religion, custom or tradition in the world restricts man to this condition except Islam.

According to the holy Quran (2:256): "Let there be no compulsion in religion", which means that a Muslim could not force another Muslim to comply with God’s rules. It has to be the person’s own submission to follow the commandments. If a woman refuses a polygamous marriage, the Quran says she could not be forced.

Islam is the first religion to allow certain conditions to be added to the marriage contract, which is something similar to today’s civilized -not religious- prenuptial agreement (And yes it is in my marriage contract that my husband should not take another wife, clever huh?).

With that, Islam cares for the religious side of the holy matrimony as well as the financial and the social sides. Islam organizes all aspects of life for its followers and not limited only to the religious aspect. Thus, full consent is a major corner of the marriage contract in Islam. This means that the bride has full right to refuse a polygamous marriage.

According to Shariaa -Islamic law, a co-wife will inherit a part of the dead husband’s estate, the children will too. In a monogamous culture, children who were born outside of wed lock will inherit but their mother will not.

As we can all see all around the world men are polygamists by nature, Islam just give "the other woman" and her children equal rights.

Is it not the same as polygamy when a husband cheats on his wife? Is it not
the same as polygamy when a man has more than one girlfriend or has a few 'one night stands' regularly?

This is reality. Islam is a realistic religion NOT a fantasy religion.

You keep going on about how Hinduism has been "reformed" yeah with influence of the west! And doesnt it put you off that all your ancient prophets had slaves and practiced polygamy? I mean were they wrong? If so what makes them good examples to follow?

We believe Islam is perfect and does not need us editing the laws of God, taking out what we dont like or what is not "fashionable" at the time.

Furthermore, if you think polygamy has been banned for moral reasons you should really do alot more reading.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran