(...) writes:
"I continue to be flabbergasted by the number of people who dedicate there beliefs to hundreds of religions and gods yet have NO-NADA objective verifiable evidence to support their beliefs. There is no evidence that any of these gods communicate with any sane persons of these religions. No dead fathers, mothers relatives or friends ever verify there heaven or hell with their living siblings or friends There is no objective verifiable evidence that any of these gods have, in any clear manner, established their existence. All religious beliefs appear to be purely based on the claims of others humans of questionable sanity, veracity and intelligence. Would anyone invest their wealth based on these unsubstantiated beliefs? Why do they invest their very lives so carelessly?"
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V:
Thanks for your timely topic.
In defense of the theists. A good study course is:
Faith and Reason - Philosophy of Religion
Modern Scholar Series - recorded books - 7 CD's
Lecturer: Professor Peter Kreeft
A highly recommend series for anyone interested in the subject of religion and spiritual studies. The professor is a long time resident of Boston college. I found this course to be very fair minded. I could not tell and preference for any side of the subject and he argued for all sides with the same zeal. The bulk of the course discussed the monotheist and atheist views while the remainder dealt with comparative religion studies of Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucius, and Taoism.
Course Syllabus
Lecture 1 What Is Religion? Why Is It Worth Thinking About?
Lecture 2 Atheism
Lecture 3 The Problem of Evil
Lecture 4 Arguments for God’s Existence from Nature (Cosmological Arguments)
Lecture 5 Arguments for God’s Existence from Human Experience (Psychological Arguments)
Lecture 6 Religion and Science
Lecture 7 The Case Against Life After Death
Lecture 8 The Case for Life After Death: Twelve Arguments
Lecture 9 Different Concepts of Heaven
Lecture 10 Hell
Lecture 11 Testing the Different Truth-Claims of Different Religions
Lecture 12 Comparative Religions
Lecture 13 What Would Socrates Think?
Lecture 14 Religious Experience
http://www.recordedbooks.com/index.c...A54%3A45%27%7D
As far as why people believe without indisputable evidence?
People do it for a number of reasons.
Some are trained from birth as I was - you take it all for gospel without question. I was catholic for 50 years before I became an agnostic freethinker. It took 45 years just to start questioning things and 5 years to come to a conclusion for me.
Others just need some comfort to 'look towards' and help escape the present pain of life.
You see, few of us like the idea of permanent death.
Nor does the average person like a life of pain and unhappiness.
So religion fills the gap that atheism cannot help with and in many cases atheism just makes matters much worse though bitterness and ill will while ripping out the previous moral and charitable foundation that religion supplied in the person previous life.
Isn't it much easier to fantasize about something else than stay in the hear and now? Fantasies about being in heaven with no pain and all joy?
I try and catch myself when I practice this escapism and work to bring my thoughts back to the present.
Whenever the fantasy starts I check to see what I am escaping from?
Why do I fixate on something else instead of where I'm at?
If we take care of the present, the future will take care of itself so the good book tells us.
Practicing mindfulness of the present moment as part of a Buddhist practice has helped me as well as and working 12 step programs to repair the damage of the past and balance my life.
When theists look towards the atheist they see nothing but pain and hatred. So naturally this helps 'keep them in religion' as there is no other place to go for a semblance of peace.
No, just being an atheist will not solve one's problems by any means.
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...80376205a536b?
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God.
They do not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts.
Until they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace) they seek.
It is the same for those that think money is all that is standing between them and happiness.
So it goes for the ego and intellect based person that is devoid of spiritual values.
Always remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a good life. Seek balance.
Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect, but we can all do better at being humane if we try.
See:
http://**********************/jne/fo....php?topic=4.0
May I suggest that instead of being dogmatic, militant atheists as many of you are, you become agnostic freethinkers?
Same with the theists crowd. Start questioning the absurd and stop killing people in the name of God or Allah.
The only true freethinkers are agnostic freethinkers.
Theist or atheist...you are both mind manacled and deluded.
This is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves.
As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless.
Again, a freethinker is 'free to decide' how they wish to proceed.
Just be careful of falling into the trap of 'mind manacled freethinker' as many ego based people fall into.
The prejudiced, blind, small minded thinker cannot entertain freethought as they must block or censor the ideas and concepts before testing them for truth.
Their ego will not allow it! Such people do not operate on truth, they operate on ego. There is nothing wrong with having personal opinions, but when we use these opinions to destroy others, then it does become very wrong.
The difference between an authority and an authoritarian is this.
An authority speaks from a place of truth and such speaks as an authority. Whereas an authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth. For the truth stands on it own and the authoritarian stands on their EGO.
No, egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth and sustenance for life - as no one person is God.
Traditional freethinkers (atheists) do not accept me as one of their group, since I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that comes from religion.
Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject into the equation?
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
When we limit prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the human breast."
If it is religion that an atheists need to adopt, they only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying secular humanism lip service will not do any good.
Our talk of spiritual values must match our actions.
I was at a religious discussion where the group was composed of a wide spectrum of believers and non believers. One atheist said he ran his life by the golden rule. Another person piped up that the golden rule came from the bible, which made the atheist wince.
The atheist seemed to take pride in his self sufficiency and did not like to run his life by anything that came out of the bible. When it came up that the concept of golden rule might be from an earlier source than the bible, the atheist was relieved.
This was a good reminder to me to examine where my guiding light resides? Is it ego based or truth based?
When the guiding light of this atheist was not grounded in the bible he was happy. But when it came from an area that he did not like, he was upset.
How can the same material be used to build a palace by one man, yet only build a hovel for another? By one spiritual practitioner seeing truth and applying it to live a life at peace. And the other person only seeing prejudice and problems and doing nothing.
Every religion was made by man and as such every religion is imperfect as it is run by man. Despite these imperfections, each religion also has many "perfection's" within it as well.
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Why do people believe? 
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