granpa

I'm moved by reason, evidence based reality sometimes logic and I see neither in religion. I'm not ruling out the possibility there may be ones I overlooked.

So give me actual persuasive, evidence based points as to why you believe God exists.

Points like we know Jesus existed, The teachings in the Bible, and "what else would have created all this" are NOT such evidence based points. I've heard them too many times before please don't put me through that again.

I'm not looking for "faith based" arguments I'm looking for evidence and reason based ones. I want to know why people believe besides faith and hope.

somdude85

Somehow, I doubt you'll get what you're looking for.

The An-Jel

Your making me laugh with the same av.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

G_Unit

Hey, this is my first post here. I got pissed off with a christian forum and dropped it like a hot rock.

Anyways I have never seen evidence to support the existence of a God. Do you think someone does? If they did, religion would be a lot easier to follow. Lack of evidence is why there are so many critics of God. God has always just been accepted as truth, and only recenlty has the idea of God been challenged. I believe what makes sense to me, which means... Religion isn't really for me...

Og

There is, in fact, evidence that Yaweh (or any idea of a God Entity) is an illusion.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

G_Unit

May I see it please?

Og

K,

Surgeon stimulates your brain to map out his location when removing a tumor. You move your arm or lose visual perception or have an emotion or feel like someone's tickling your feet or have a memory. You are not in control of this behavior when the surgeon stimulates your brain.

When your head is closed up, there are 10s of millions of little stimuli going to your brain and stimulating your gray matter in a way identical to what the surgeon was doing. These stimuli are called your senses. Instead of a doctor zapping a general area of brain tissue, these stimuli have complex physical inputs and are connected in very fine and regular ways to your brain.

Every act you have while moving about as an individual is as much in "your" control as your behavior under the stimulus of the surgeon on the operating table.

The idea of free will is an illusion. It's integral to the illusion of self. We ULTIMATELY do not have free will. We are ultimately, all of us, a confluence of events and not an end in ourselves. You are a product of your environment in every sense of the world. You're akin to a tornado that forms out of complex weather patterns.

You are an a-moral being. Good and evil are illusions. Life/death are illusions. Fear/desire are illusions. All just ideas in our heads that define our behavior. You reading this text right now is an example of stimuli entering your brain and based on your previous construction (i.e. development up to this time), you will incorporate this information into your being in some form or another (or reject it in some form).

This is not disputed. It is the consensus of the modern scientific community. Humans are an emergent property of the universe. This is what modern molecular/cellular biology and neuroscience illustrates.

With this realization, you can see that the idea of a god that punishes or rewards based on your choices in life is an illusion. You can see that any idea of a separate entity is a product of the illusion. The difference between you and me is arbitrary. Just because my skin doesn't enfold your neurons doesn't mean we're some different process. As a matter of fact, my neurons are interacting with your neurons in complex ways as you read this text.

The idea of any individual entity with responsibility is a product of the fundamental illusion that makes us human.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Sa\/en

What exactly do you mean?

Og

I mean you don't have any choice in any behavior. They're like tornadoes or sunny days. They just happen. You are a confluence of events, not an individual. Distinctions of self are arbitrary.

The material that is in your flesh that makes you who you are was once at the center of stars and once traveled the universe in dust clouds and meteorites.

When you "die" nothing will be different. The confluence will change (as it always does).

We are not souls put into this world, we are buds from the world. As roses flower and vines "grape" and as the ocean waves, the universe peoples.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Sa\/en

I agree that we don’t have a choice, but that doesn't mean fear and desire are "illusions". Fear and desire are real, we can prove this scientifically.