The An-Jel

I did that with my girl who was a JW. Thankfully she was already discouraged otherwise I could have seen where it could have got pretty hairy.

I am kind of sick of this whole metaphoric thing. I mean did God make the Earth, Stars, and Heavens in 6 days? Are we all not according to the Bible products of continuous incestual relations? The initial statements in Genesis lead me to question the validity of the Bible. Sounds like your doing ok Ven if you really like this girl. Like you said it doesn't matter what she believes in.

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jaej

Exactly. Where did the girl Cain married come from? There is no way the ancient hebrews would have condoned a message of incest. It simply doesn't make literal sense, so attempting to take it literally is silly and wishful thinking.

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Vencedor

mmm i kno it is, but i feel like its my responsibility to at least try for her sake. Changing ur beliefs would be very hard, especially as her whole family are very devout christians (very annoying ones too)

Neo

I got your point, Ven. I somehow got empathic to your situation. I'll try to be of "help" in the "hell thing" if that's where you think the "sticky problem" originated and hope everything turns out "pleasant" (from your side of things, of course. Because it wouldn't be pleasant to "them" and to her also if you "fully liberate" her).

I'll pause a while and post later...

Neo

The objective is not to "win" the debate, but to "win" the situation.

My idea is, if you really like the girl, you can go as far as "deny what you really believe in" if that will make it, but seems like you're already doing fine speaking your mind and perhaps that's what really made you "sexy" in her eyes (It's a presumption and I'm serious).

Forgive me guys, this may be another debate on one's principle and integrity but I personally believe that "agnostics" are (and should be) free as the wind. Since we don't adhere to anything yet, we can assume anything that pleases us to be "fine" at least even just for the time-being. If the action justifies one thing that is "tangible", the "means" would not be an issue, especially if it is simply "sacrificing" a belief for the "time-being". After all, when conditions are favorable, we can "turn the tables" once again..couldn't we?

So back to Ven's problem...

(.. will post again later. I intentionally cut my discussion into chunks not only to avoid "irritatingly long" posts but avoid loss of text due to power outage...happens once in a while here.)

Neo

Ven, could you please post the line(s) in the "bible" that makes everything confusing for your girlfriend? Maybe we can dissect the lines and find the "solution" we need.

One thing more, does her parents know of your "non-religious affiliation" already? I asked 'cause it kinda give relevance to the "style" you should present your arguments to her (tells also how "open" they are to each other).

Vencedor

i kno what ur saying neo about "denying what i believe in" and believe me i've considered it. I talked to my gf (we talk about everything) about whether she would have perferred it if we never had these debates and she said that when she thinks back to the person she used to be and looks at the person she is now, she wouldn't want to go back. I've also asked her a few times how important the truth is to her, i believe its important but i also believe that its everyones choice to worry about the truth or not, and she said that it was more important to her than belief. All things considered with her family, friends, etc my gf has already told me that if she decided to change she wouldn't be willing to cover it up or anything. so i think at this point its a bit late to let my principals go for a while, whats done is done, she's already feeling confused.

Also neo, her parents knew about my non-religious affiliation" from the beginning of our relationship. There are a whole lot of bible verses on the subject of hell and pretty much all of them add up to the whole problem. U can find most of them at this website i discovered while looking for a solution http://www.av1611.org/hell.html be warned tho, its a pretty *cough* evangalical (im not sure if thats a word) site. Quite scary

Vencedor

oh and another thing, the issue with hell was a catalyst, over the months we've known each other i've found a whole bunch of problems my gf couldn't resolve but this ones really got her attention which is why we're focusing on it

lauraclay

I honestly don't think there is a literal solution Ven. It's just one of the irrationalities only faith can solve.

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The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

aflockadevos

I think it's used as symbolism...