The An-Jel

Sure it can if God was more like a human. It depends on what you want God to be like or even the gods to be like. I think the Greek Gods are more realistic than God. What do you say to someone like that?

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Og

Fear and desire drives all human behavior. Hell and heaven. This is central to buddhism. People seem to desire an afterlife with their loved ones. Others seem to fear hell. For many its a combination. These ideas speak to the nature of being human now, not in the future..

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Dirge

I think Og put it perfectly in his first post.
It's all defined by "how" you look at it, and not "what" it means.
Besides, Hell has been painted in many ways since the old days. And for different religions it hold different meanings.
For example, how can you look at Hell through Islam, if a religious Islamic can't actualy go to hell.
In Judaism there is no Hell, yet Heaven is lost as well. So what drives a person to act or not act in a certain way?
So as a christian, what does your gl think she has to do in order to get a a backstage pass to Heaven? maybe that will help understand the definition of Hell as well.

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It can't rain all the time

jaej

I think you might have misinterpreted what I was saying, but it doesn't really matter.

Do you think that people will stop fearing the unknown? I think people are born with an intense desire to control, and anything outside their control scares them. I don't think people will ever stop fearing hell until they don't believe it exists.

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lauraclay

What I was saying was, if any one idea made complete sense, had no flaws, then everyone would believe it. How many people question gravity? We can't see it, but I've yet to encounter anyone who denies it. If Hell made complete and perfect sense, everyone would believe. Since it doesn't, since it is questionable, there are your doubters.

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The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

Vencedor

maybe i should again be more clear about my position. When i say im confused what i actually mean is that it seems to me as if the concept of hell is a flaw in the literal translation of the bible. An-jel that is including the definition of God being the "perfect" being. And yes, i perfer the concept of the Greek Gods too, it explains all the tradgedies and disasters in the world.

lauraclay

Everyone knows there are literal flaws in the Bible. Is this what you're surprised over? You might like the thread 'flaws in the bible'. But the Bible is meant to be taken metaphorically, I think. Like Og always says, it is illuminating as poetry, but not to be taken literally.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

jaej

I think the 'punishment' in hell is analagous to capital punishment. Whoever said the purpose of punishment is to recant is right. Someone is punished with the expectation that the punishment will cause a change in their behavior. Neither hell nor the death penalty provide this opportunity for change.

I learned in psychlogy last year the main methods of changing behavior: positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, and punishment. Positive is where you reward good behavior by giving the subject something good. For example, if they could get a mouse to push a button in his cage, they would give him food, thereby encouraging the same behavior. Negative is where the subject is rewarded by removing something bad-like if the mouse pushed the button, they would take away the electric shock from the floor, encouraging the same behavior. Punishment is different, in that it tries to discourage behavior rather than encourage it.

My point is this, and it's already been said: hell gives no chance to change your behavior, so calling it punishment is an inaccurate statement. If there's a word for "oh you did some bad stuff i guess in your life so you get to burn in this fire forever oh well sucks to be you", than that's hell.

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Neo

So what's with the debate with your gf, Vencedor. Wanna win her over? Convince her that her religion is flawed using her own bible as a tool? Tell us more...

Vencedor

Ok first of all lauraclay i've noticed heaps of literal flaws in the bible, im not actually confused in fact i expect them. I say im confused to avoid the arrogance of literally saying "this is wrong" its just a humility thing, sort of something i picked up from reading Socrates, he would always say that he must be a great fool not to understand (when the other person wasn't making any sense) anyway, thats where im coming from when i say im confused, sorry if i was a bit misleading

Neo, well i guess its sort of coming to that. This debates been going on probably for over 6 months, b4 we were going out. Originally we were just doing it for fun but now she's starting to have some serious doubts so im being very careful to make sure she realises that i don't care what she believes and i didn't start those debates with some plan of "winning her over." But good intentions or not thats sort of whats starting to happen. Now im actually trying to help her solve these problems i've brought up cos i only want her to change if i kno we've made every effort to make it so she doesn't have to. It probably would be a healthy change but its not my place to be trying to change her, so thats why i asked if anyone can solve the hell question (she's a literal christian so she can't take it metaphorically) because im seeing if theres any way we can find an answer we're comfortable with