The An-Jel

Og you believe in consciousness don't you?

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Noscura

I think you need more to consider this 'god' in the sense you'd want it to mean (is it mean or meen?) what you consider god.

Let's say this world is as it seems around you,
people can suffer memory loss, right?
Then they wake up as if their past didn't exist.

Then take the (same?) world as is.
Well, you say we are concious, I do not deny that .
You claim that to be concious something has to have been the first to be concious, which makes perfect sense(, if time is ultimate).
But what if you'd be this first? Everyone is the center of their own universe. You can be sure of your own concious, but you can't be of another conciousness. Maybe this world exists because you claim it to exist and it stops when you get out of the world. And how about a life before being born? (And i do not just mean the cirkle of life with birth and rebirth like in hinduïsm.) I meen any form on any plane with any consciousness possible on that plane.

I don't claim any proof whatsoever, but I just wanna say your proof isn't any proof either for your god to exist, unless you claim you can be your god as well, and in other words you just tell me you are consious by consuming a lot more words then 'cogito ergo sum'.

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and taking another scroll on the matter. If a god exists, by the fact he/she/it 's supposed to be conscious. If something can be conscious throughout the entire time and not be created, but just exists, why can't your conscious do the same and just make its memory fade from time to time?
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Anyway, these were some of my thoughts on the matter...

bye, Noscura

jaej

A tornado is not conscious; that is exactly Og's point, if I read correctly. He has said time and again how neuron's cannot fire independently-the can only be stimulated. He is saying (forgive me for putting words in your mouth Og) that, like a tornado, human 'consciousness' is completely dependent on the laws of physics. We have no 'free will', so to speak.

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Bodhitharta

We can and are aware of the consciousness of others if you are reading this which I write than you are aware of my consciousness.

Bodhitharta

That makes no sense whatsoever and if you disagree you are doing so out of your ability to have free will.

The An-Jel

We are aware of our own supposed consciousness. I don't know if I actually am.

You do Bod?

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Og

You didn't answer before. What is a prime consciousness? I don't get what you mean by that. Therefore, I don't understand why it must follow that if we are conscious that there must be a prime consciousness.

And I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss jaej's comments. He's pretty right on. What I was saying was that consciousness is an illusion (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means its not what it seems). Consciousness is the result of a complex interaction of elements of the universe in the same way that a tornado is a complex interaction of elements in the atmosphere.

They are only different types of patterns and not a different KIND of thing.

But still, I don't know what you mean by "prime conscious"

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Bodhitharta

Of course you are aware of yourself if you weren't you couldn't even ponder the question. Get it?

Bodhitharta

Prime meaning "First", "Original" and highest "Rank"

Conciousness can not be an illusion otherwise all your questions are illusions as well. Get it?

DahleeMama

Og, would you please define "free will"?

To me, free will is the capacity to make a decision when confronted with multiple options and the ability to discount or ignore outside influences.

I agree that we make decisions based on prior experiences, previous consequences (good or bad) when we've made similar decisions, etc. We also make decisions based on social influences. I have decided, for example. that I will not go to my neighbor's home, take his new television and claim it as my own.

I am not well versed in the Christian bible, but my take on the concept of "free will" from a biblical standpoint is that God gave people free will so they could choose to believe in him or not. I guess the other option would have been to create people without free will, in which case we would all be born pre-programmed to believe in the same God.

I don't believe in a God that gives, takes away, rewards, punishes, etc., however, for the sake of argument, I don't believe a creator type God would put "free will" in the human template and then punish for using it. If we don't have free will then I would totally agree that punishing us for our decisions is a bit silly.

DM

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"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires; desires of which he is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence." Bertrand Russell