Og

This is interesting becausee it illustrates a missunderstanding of what I'm saying. I have always said that choice is an illusion. I have always said that illusion doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. So people can feel like they are choosing when ultimately, they are not.

As for a "dead person rembering leaving his body" well.... The person is not fully dead. They still have sensory stimulus to their body and can be aware of whats going on around them.

The trick is that people do not leave their bodies. They have hallucinations and such which are patterns of neural activity in their own heads. That they interpret them as actually being outside their body just means that they don't know how to interpret their brain activity. People don't actually leave bodies. People are the bodies.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

lauraclay

http://img.tapuz.co.il/forums/5823093.pdf
Really long, but great.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

Bodhitharta

Did you just completely ignore this article:

"LOS ANGELES -- A British scientist studying heart attack patients says he is finding evidence that suggests that consciousness may continue after the brain has stopped functioning and a patient is clinically dead."

Did you also read the part about the three year old who later drew a picture of themselves outside of their body looking down at their body? Why would a three year old draw that?

How can they have hallucinations while there dead?

Now, come'on you seem to be a very fair and honest person so please deal with this sincerely. Some people will hold onto something so tight even when they themselves know they should let it go(at least for a moment) to see if it resurfaces in a stronger way or if it just dies. If you could concede to what I have shown everyone will be that much better off and you are no less the genius that you are.

Bodhitharta

And the article I put up was another study that happened a year later.

Og

You do the same thing. I present a case where all this crazy NDE can be labeled as the result of the complex behavior of a brain under stress during hypoxia or otherwise.

You seem to be presenting a case where NDE is a supernatural experience where some intangible "soul" floats over the body. Provide evidence other than the drawings of a little girl.

We're more than willing to marginalize the hallucinations of a schizophrenic including all of the "real" people that they see. Why don't we have the same kind of incredulity where NDE are concerned? The brain is obviously capable of some amazing stuff, but it is the brain.

There is no credible evidence for a soul pulling the strings in the human brain. All anyone seems to present is anecdotal claims from people who've experienced a near death brain stressing event. If you asked all the schizo's how many eyes you had, they could all answer 3, but it wouldn't make it correct.

Where's the measurement? If it effects what is real (i.e. controls our behavior), it can be measured. If it has no effect (cannot be measured) then who cares. Carl Sagan speaks of a friend who has an invisible dragon in his garage that is immune to all attempts to prove its existence or non existence.

So again, where's the measurement? How accurate is it? What are you measuring? Where is your control?

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Jellicle Tribe

The Final Proof of God will be when he stops by the house and has that beer I've been saving for him/her/it. Everything else is theory/fantasy/wishful thinking.

__________________
Mike
and the Jellicle Tribe, a gang of
rogue cats of dubious lineage!!!